Gouache Question

[Kevin]

Hi All! Can anyone tell me if there is a gouache tutorial, article, or thread on gouache? I note that there is not a separate forum for this subject. Is it just considered a variation on watercolors? Thanks!

[Roun2it]

I know that Gouache painters post in watercolour sections as they have no home, so a search of the forums, and a scroll down the results may help.

[Flattwo]

Hi

Gouache is Watercolour...just not transparent, a lot of people regard Gouache as another medium, but cannot define what that medium is, beacause....

GOUACHE is - A heavy, opaque watercolor paint, sometimes called body color, producing a less wet-appearing and more strongly colored picture than ordinary watercolor.

I personally will most any Gouache painting I do in the Watercolour forum, I dont feel there is any need for a sepearate one

Gouache is a really fun version of watercolour to do, and I enjoy it

Regards

Flattwo

[Richard Saylor]

There's an excellent introductory article at http://www.productionpost.com/gouache-article-1.htm

[VeronikaB]

Kevin, I find the gouache paints give much richer colours. I've had quite a time trying to mix a green from yellow and blue, though - either it was light and yellowish or dark and blueish, but not green. Finally, in desperation, I took this mixture and added watercolour viridian stright from the tube and it worked. Nice opaque dark green.

Richard, thanks for the link. I'd been searching for something like this for quite a long time.

The thing that I find irritating with gouache is that it dries devilishly quickly. I haven't been able to achieve smooth gradations. I bought some medium for acrylics which slows drying time and I am planning to try this with gouache (actually the shop assistant asked me to come back and tell him if it worked ) Anyone has any experience with this?

[FriendCarol]

I used to use gouache exclusively (didn't know the difference!), and agree it's almost impossible to get a smooth wash. My Pelikan "opaque watercolor" pan paints were lovely, but I practically never mixed colors, or did a wash or glaze (even though I used Arches blocks, since I didn't know I wasn't doing traditional watercolor). Someone even gave me a metal box of some (used) acrylic paints once, but unfortunately without any instruction. It never occurred to me to mix them -- with one another or with my pan paints. I didn't even realize the little mounds I left in the wells would dry into immovable plastic lumps, and eventually threw the whole thing out!

Now, over 30 years later, I wonder why it never occurred to me (or anyone around me) to find a library book about watercolor or acrylic. I spent most of my time in the stacks prowling through social sciences, science, history, or fiction, but couldn't the artists around me tell I hadn't a clue what I was doing?

Although I have no experience with using an acrylic medium to slow drying time, if I were to experiment, I might try adding a little honey to my mixing water. Honey is a humectant (holds moisture), it's usually already available around the house somewhere, and it's relatively cheap (relative to art-supply store prices!). Before the use of gum arabic became so prevalent, honey was a common binder for watercolor pigments. (In fact, I understand M. Graham watercolors use honey rather than gum arabic.)

I look forward to hearing the results of your experiment(s)!

[Pars]

Originally Posted by FriendCarol

Now, over 30 years later, I wonder why it never occurred to me (or anyone around me) to find a library book about watercolor or acrylic. I spent most of my time in the stacks prowling through social sciences, science, history, or fiction, but couldn't the artists around me tell I hadn't a clue what I was doing?

Although I have no experience with using an acrylic medium to slow drying time, if I were to experiment, I might try adding a little honey to my mixing water. Honey is a humectant (holds moisture), it's usually already available around the house somewhere, and it's relatively cheap (relative to art-supply store prices!). Before the use of gum arabic became so prevalent, honey was a common binder for watercolor pigments. (In fact, I understand M. Graham watercolors use honey rather than gum arabic.)

I look forward to hearing the results of your experiment(s)!

Fluid acrylics are easier to keep wet and moist - just like w/c -- with water. I generally use Golden's 2oz and have made more progress with these than with the heavier, full bodied acrylics. Retards are also available but I haven't used these. When I want to keep colour going I put in ziplock baggie, with some moisture and generally can keep a colour going for a few days, not much more than that though and I do a water spray it when I open it again. I also have a wet tray, but it is too large for my workspace and it is hiding. However, the moisture in the tray does keep acrylics runny enough for reuse.

[Richard Saylor]

I don't think gouache is particularly suitable for glazing. It's best to consider it an alla prima medium. I've used it for washes on unprimed watercolor paper with no problems, although transparent watercolor, which is completely compatible with gouache, is better for this. (I like hot pressed watercolor paper for gouache, especially for highly detailed work, although cold pressed works okay.) Normally, however, gouache works best when diluted to the consistency of cream, which is a bit thick for glazing, since it is so opaque.

Rob Howard, in his otherwise excellent book Gouache for Illustration (unfortunately out of print), says to add ox gall to the mixing water to help in laying down a large, smooth, flat area of color. I tried this and didn't like the "feel."

I would strongly suggest trying distilled water instead of tap water. Although I have relatively pure tap water (from a deep well), using distilled water made a big difference with gouache. However, there's no advantage in using it for transparent watercolor or acrylics.

By the way, W&N gouache is very brilliant and has a high pigment load, but I have trouble with "bronzing" (an unattractive iridescent sheen). I much prefer Da Vinci, which is a lot cheaper and has, in my opinion, a more uniform matte finish.

Another thing. The opacity of gouache is relative. It is much more opaque than acrylics and oils but not completely so, and some colors are more opaque than others.

[Kevin]

Hi All! Thanks for such interesting advice and comments. I can't wait to start testing out my new gouache paints, which I intend to do to-morrow!

Roun2it: Thanks. I'll check that out.

Flattwo: I hope I'll like it too, in addition to the oils and transparent watercolors I usually work with. Thanks!

Friend Carol: Sorry you had trouble, but at least you can think of it as "experience"! Now we are all lucky that we have wetcanvas as a wonderful source of information and support! I wonder if the gouache would dry less quickly if you use more water? Maybe "layering" colors might work?

Richard: Thanks for the advice, comments, and the reference--which I'll soon be checking out!

Veronika: Thanks for the interesting comments. In oils, if you add a touch of the complement to the color you are mixing, it helps a lot. I wonder if that would also work with gouache?

Pars: When I'm through for the day with my transparent watercolors, I put a soaking wet sponge in the palette and put the cover on it. that keeps it moist for several days. Would that work with gouache?

Richard: what did you mean when you said that "transparent watercolor is completely compatible with gouache"? Do you mean mixing the two, or including both in separate parts of the same painting? Just confused on what you meant. Thanks!

[Pars]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Pars: When I'm through for the day with my transparent watercolors, I put a soaking wet sponge in the palette and put the cover on it. that keeps it moist for several days. Would that work with gouache?

Hi Kevin - I think it's worth trying. It works for me with w/c and acrylic and gouche is water-based.

And I notice you are up in Saratoga. Perhaps you can drop by the artstore on the main street, can't remember their name (one street over from the large bookstore) - they have always been very helpful when I'm there and ask one of the guys in the back.. One or two of them are artists and seem to be familiar with watercolour and have made some good recommendations.

Let us know how you fare!

Cheers,

Zoe

[Richard Saylor]

Richard: what did you mean when you said that "transparent watercolor is completely compatible with gouache"? Do you mean mixing the two, or including both in separate parts of the same painting? Just confused on what you meant. Thanks!

They can be mixed. Stir them together right out of the tubes if you wish. No problem.

Pars: When I'm through for the day with my transparent watercolors, I put a soaking wet sponge in the palette and put the cover on it. that keeps it moist for several days. Would that work with gouache?

Yes. Even if it dries it can be rehydrated just like pan watercolors.

[Kevin]

Hi Pars: You mean Soave Faire, on Broadway in Saratoga Springs. I go there occasionally. It is crowded and chock full of art stuff--so is always interesting to visit. I'll ask next time I go there.

Richard: That's interesting; I assume the relative consistency and degree of transparency/opacity may be difficult to control. A couple more questions, if you don't mind---? Do watercolor or oils/acrylics brushes work best with gouache? Also, if you are layering paint, the underlayer(s) must be completely dry (as I understand from the wonderful link you supplied above). Can you use a heat gun to ensure the first layer(s) are thoroughly dry before proceeding with the next layer? Many thanks for all the help!

[Pars]

Hi Kevin,

Yes that's the place. I only get to the Springs a few times a year when I can escape from Albany (my main office). I was there about 2 months ago and the shop had changed again--fewer hats

And, Kevin, I believe Richard knows his stuff on gouche and I just use it very occasionally. It is more full bodied but has a nice feel to it.

Again, let's hear how it goes.

Cheers,

Zoe

[Richard Saylor]

Richard: That's interesting; I assume the relative consistency and degree of transparency/opacity may be difficult to control.

That's true.

Do watercolor or oils/acrylics brushes work best with gouache?

I use mostly watercolor brushes. Hog bristle oil painting brushes are a little too stiff for gouache, but I do have a round hog bristle which sometimes comes in handy.

Also, if you are layering paint, the underlayer(s) must be completely dry (as I understand from the wonderful link you supplied above).

Yes.

Can you use a heat gun to ensure the first layer(s) are thoroughly dry before proceeding with the next layer?

Yes. Just remember that the dried paint layer is still water soluble, so try not to brush over it back and forth too much with the new layer or else the underlayer will dissolve and mix with the new layer. (The fact that gouache remains water soluble can be an advantage, as adjacent color areas can be blended to some extent with a damp brush even after the paint is dry.)

[Richard Saylor]

Originally Posted by Pars

And, Kevin, I believe Richard knows his stuff on gouche and I just use it very occasionally.

Thank you, Zoe, that's a very kind thing to say.