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Old 08-05-2004, 08:47 PM
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Colour Conversion - Help

Hello - I was just going to try Rod's Onion. I had the most awful time with some onions this week from a reference book and thought this would make for a good fresh start. However, Rod is using "light red" which is probably WN. I checked www.handprint.com and see it is PR101/PY42 (both oxides). I don't have many WNs and nothing that is a real match for this that hits me.

Any suggestions for a good alternative? Appreciatively,

Zoe
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Old 08-05-2004, 09:26 PM
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Deb Leger Deb Leger is offline
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

Hi Zoe,

I just checked the WN colour chart and their light red is actually pale brownish. I have two tubes of paint with pigments of pr101 and they're Indian Red and Burnt Sienna. On their charts, the light red (found in with the browns) is closer to the burnt sienna, but that's just MHO. If you check out the charts, you could compare what you have to the shade of light red shown there.

If you'd like to download a pdf file of Winsor Newton's colour charts, you can go here and then compare:

Winsor Newton Colour Charts pdf

(And maybe Rod will see this and answer! )

Deb
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Old 08-05-2004, 09:42 PM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb Leger
Hi Zoe,

I just checked the WN colour chart and their light red is actually pale brownish. I have two tubes of paint with pigments of pr101 and they're Indian Red and Burnt Sienna. On their charts, the light red (found in with the browns) is closer to the burnt sienna, but that's just MHO. If you check out the charts, you could compare what you have to the shade of light red shown there.

If you'd like to download a pdf file of Winsor Newton's colour charts, you can go here and then compare:

Winsor Newton Colour Charts pdf

(And maybe Rod will see this and answer! )

Deb

Thanks so much, Deb. What a great resource this colour chart. As you said it is sitting right there with the browns and seems to have just a tad of yellow in it. I have indian red and BS, neither of which is WS. Of course I can just play around but I went so wrong in translating this other onion I am feeling wretched. It called for Aureolin - but mine is far darker than the old WN and it made the onion look like a banana

But I suppose this is the way to learn.

Again many thanks and perhaps Rod will show up

Zoe
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Old 08-05-2004, 11:35 PM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

Hi again Zoe,

what brands do you have? Maybe if you watered down your aureolin and mixed it with just a bit of burnt sienna to tone it down? If you don't have the colours stated in any demo, just try mixing your own with what you do have.

And don't feel wretched. It's the only way to learn! You have to paint over and over and over again and just look at the ones that don't turn out to your liking as learning experiences.

Deb
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Old 08-06-2004, 01:04 AM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

Why not take apicture of it and let us look.

Light red is almost an earthy colour and sits very well, in paintings of earthy natural things, like the onion. You can try mixing your own, but use earth colours like Burnt Sienna and Raw sienna, maybe a touch of FUB, or one of the umbers to knock it down.

But if you like light red then get light red, if you use students paints, light red is in the Cotman range.

You can get too bogged down with handprint, it is ultra technical.
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Old 08-06-2004, 07:32 AM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roun2it
Why not take apicture of it and let us look.

Light red is almost an earthy colour and sits very well, in paintings of earthy natural things, like the onion. You can try mixing your own, but use earth colours like Burnt Sienna and Raw sienna, maybe a touch of FUB, or one of the umbers to knock it down.

But if you like light red then get light red, if you use students paints, light red is in the Cotman range.

You can get too bogged down with handprint, it is ultra technical.

Thanks, Kev - I have good quality paints but not inclined to W&N. And yes I do agree sometimes handprint can get "too" technical. I'll give some of the alternative suggestions you and Deb made a try this weekend.

As of now I am w/o scanner so pictures ain't an option, but soon.

Zoe
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Old 08-06-2004, 07:38 AM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb Leger
Hi again Zoe,

what brands do you have? Maybe if you watered down your aureolin and mixed it with just a bit of burnt sienna to tone it down? If you don't have the colours stated in any demo, just try mixing your own with what you do have.

And don't feel wretched. It's the only way to learn! You have to paint over and over and over again and just look at the ones that don't turn out to your liking as learning experiences.

Deb

Hi again Deb
I have M. Graham, Holbein (for the Aureolin) and DS. Here's the issue. I was trying to follow along with this w/c book and frankly the instructions are not good because the instructions and the pictorial images don't match in most cases. When I look at the pictures I see a light yellow wash but the aureolin is not that light even watered down. I think this is not the best book to learn with because it appears all the lesson plans are like this.

I'm going to give Rod's onion a go this weekend with these alternative colours you and Kev gave me and experiment.

I appreciate all your "help"

Zoe
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Old 08-06-2004, 05:41 PM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

As far as I know, light red and indian red are basically the same (interchangeable).
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Old 08-06-2004, 07:10 PM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uschi
As far as I know, light red and indian red are basically the same (interchangeable).
Uschi


Thanks. I'm just home from work and took out all the look-alikes. Indian Red does seem rather close - and I thought I might also try a few others for the fun of it although I did forget to buy an onion . I wasn't having enough fun.

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Old 08-07-2004, 01:03 PM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

Didn't know you had an aversity to W&N, but their main rival company, Daler Rowney also do a light red, see here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pars
Thanks, Kev - I have good quality paints but not inclined to W&N.
Zoe
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Old 08-07-2004, 02:31 PM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roun2it
Didn't know you had an aversity to W&N, but their main rival company, Daler Rowney also do a light red, see here

Oh, Thanks, Kev - Not adverse but rather keen to experiment with other brands. When I learned oils, it was only W&N but with so many other options and prices, I decided to not go my traditional way. W&N seem rather dear compared to Graham's at discount.

Anyway, I had some successes. I tried the Indian Red (DSs) and then I did a slightly larger one with a really strange Umber - Raw Umber Violet.

I followed much of what Rod outlined and found I was beginning to get the hang of it...if I go nice and easy. The Indian Red is rather heavy but it is rich while the RU Violet is probably less natural looking.

When I get hooked up with a scanner I'll share my small triumphs.

Thanks for taking the time
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Old 08-09-2004, 10:48 PM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pars
I have M. Graham, Holbein (for the Aureolin) and DS. Here's the issue. I was trying to follow along with this w/c book and frankly the instructions are not good because the instructions and the pictorial images don't match in most cases. When I look at the pictures I see a light yellow wash but the aureolin is not that light even watered down.
Actually, many of the watercolor books still in print recommend traditional transparent, non-staining pigments which turned out to be "fugitive." That is, the color will fade quite badly over time. One of these is "aureolin," which in its original form is in fact a light yellow -- but this pigment is no longer used by most artists. (Exception: W/N among others offers the original formula for commercial artists or others who create paintings to be printed -- for this purpose, longevity doesn't matter.) "Aureolin" will therefore look different in most brands today than it looks in illustrations in these books.

The other traditional pigments no longer recommended are alizarin crimson (W/N "permanent alizarin crimson" is a mixture of pigments, but I like it a lot -- it acts very much like the original), and rose madder. Also, gamboge used to be made of dried camel urine; many artists say the W/N 'new gamboge" is better.

I'm only really familiar with W/N, but either their "Transparent yellow" or their "lemon yellow" apparently will behave (and mix) quite similar to the traditional aureolin. Hope this helps.
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Old 08-09-2004, 11:06 PM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by FriendCarol
Actually, many of the watercolor books still in print recommend traditional transparent, non-staining pigments which turned out to be "fugitive." That is, the color will fade quite badly over time. One of these is "aureolin," which in its original form is in fact a light yellow -- but this pigment is no longer used by most artists. (Exception: W/N among others offers the original formula for commercial artists or others who create paintings to be printed -- for this purpose, longevity doesn't matter.) "Aureolin" will therefore look different in most brands today than it looks in illustrations in these books.

The other traditional pigments no longer recommended are alizarin crimson (W/N "permanent alizarin crimson" is a mixture of pigments, but I like it a lot -- it acts very much like the original), and rose madder. Also, gamboge used to be made of dried camel urine; many artists say the W/N 'new gamboge" is better.

I'm only really familiar with W/N, but either their "Transparent yellow" or their "lemon yellow" apparently will behave (and mix) quite similar to the traditional aureolin. Hope this helps.

FriendCarol, thank you very much for this information. I have my trusty chart and it is clear my "aureolin" was the wrong choice. It is more likely as you say the WN yellow would have worked better. I was very discouraged with this particular book but I am moving on (and leaving this one behind). It was poorly edited and although the author is reputable, the work is shoddy--the pictures and words barely resemble one another

I'm following some of wetcanvases lessons and doing much better. I did manage two "onions" and they are getting better.

Thanks again for your insight.

Zoe
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Old 08-10-2004, 02:51 AM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

If you can get MaimeriBlu paints , their " Dragons blood " is the same as Light Red.

Look forward to seeing your onion ,

Rod.
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Old 08-12-2004, 08:51 PM
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Re: Colour Conversion - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod
If you can get MaimeriBlu paints , their " Dragons blood " is the same as Light Red.

Look forward to seeing your onion ,

Rod.

Thanks, Rod, for coming by. I gave in and bought some WN Light Red. You and several other profs all seem to be using it. The only colour that looks similar on my colour wheel is Q. Burnt Orange (DS).

Now I'll paint the onions again

And as soon as I get me scanner up I'll show you I'm trying to be a good student.

Zoe
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