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Old 01-21-2004, 10:15 AM
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dorith dorith is offline
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New Art Only Auction Site in the works

hi,

i've decided to start a new thread, where we can collect input and output of the new art auction website we're working on.

in an earlier post, jolie had asked if there was a way to keep the creepy massproducts for $0.01 away, since that is a major problem at ebay, and if we start over, it would be better to do so without that problem.

we've been milling over the same issue for a while - but haven't come up with a real solution for it.
how would one determine who's legit, and who isn't? and is every piece of art listed for $0.01 automatically junk? not really...

so for now, we really don't have a good idea on how to solve that, but we're still working on it.
we do have option to offer special pricing plans to people from wc! for instance - but it's probably not that smart to do it that way, because that would bring the creepy people to wc! to get the better prices, which of course wouldn't be what we want.

any suggestions, on how to keep them away? (bugtraps? cyanide? )
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Old 01-21-2004, 10:28 AM
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jocelynsart jocelynsart is offline
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

Hi Dorith: Well, one idea could be that it has to be self representing artists. If you did want to include Gallery sellers then maybe they would need to apply separately and be reviewed, their artists revealed etc.
I think it is the companies that sell work of various artists that are often the ones dealing with eastern factory production art and assembly line repros, etc. They could have a separate registration and screening process maybe.
I agree with jurying although maybe not with jurying of the work necessarily, more jurying of the artist's intent with what they offer, that they are self rep. etc. This way no persons particular style of work, price range, etc. is being juried. I don't really think a certain level or price range needs to be considered so much as a consistency in what is offered by each artist.
I don't see a problem with people starting bidding at 1cent if they so choose, being self rep. artists. It is just the 1cent repros that you probably don't want.
Basically, the artists who want to participate could submit samples of general types of work that they plan on offering and any previous business practices.
Just some thoughts. May not be useful
Joss
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Old 01-21-2004, 10:42 AM
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arsinoé arsinoé is offline
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

Hi Dorith,

I think that's a brilliant idea!

To get rid of the repros sellers, perhaps you could take only original work and forbid copy, whatever origin it may have - copy from old masters - illegal copy from living masters... - with a "3 complaints expelled" clause?

I don't feel this site should be linked to wetcanvas too much: wetcanvas would risk losing its "internet communauty open for all" spirit imho.

Please keep us informed!
Cheers,
Arsinoé
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Old 01-21-2004, 10:47 AM
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

hi joss,

we were thinking along those lines as well - however, that is an IMMENSE undertaking. maybe not in the beginning, but as things pick up, so will the auctions with mass products.
hand selecting people that list auctions is not very good from a marketing perspective, i think. that opens the door for legal fights in a big way by the ones that don't get to list.
we could put a disclaimer of sorts on the site, that would verbally suggest the mass producers to go elsewhere, but we all know that those guys can't read

limiting it to self representing artists is not a bad idea - but that would automatically exclude galleries, etc., which in turn will probably also limit buyers, jmho. and what about people offering studio supplies for sale?
obviously, that will also draw in some mass products, and how do we determine who gets to stay, and who doesn't?
i agree that it would be excellent to weed out the good from the bad, and we're still working on a solution that will fly...keep suggestions coming, we're bound to find something.
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Old 01-21-2004, 10:54 AM
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsinoé
Hi Dorith,

I think that's a brilliant idea!

To get rid of the repros sellers, perhaps you could take only original work and forbid copy, whatever origin it may have - copy from old masters - illegal copy from living masters... - with a "3 complaints expelled" clause?

I don't feel this site should be linked to wetcanvas too much: wetcanvas would risk losing its "internet communauty open for all" spirit imho.

Please keep us informed!
Cheers,
Arsinoé

hi arsinoé,

only original work probably won't fly, because a lot of artists also want to auction off prints of their own. maybe the "old masters original prints" would be weeded out.

the 3 complaints- expelled suggestion is good, and most likely something that will be employed on the site.
you're right about associating it with wc! too much - that would bring an onslaught of people that aren't really interested in wc! as a community, but just want a jumping board....
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Old 01-21-2004, 10:59 AM
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

How about controlling the shipping? I’ve noticed most of the $ 0.01 paintings have shipping of $15 - $66 for tiny, unframed paintings so that is obviously where they make their $.

I wish you the best of luck with this project!!
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Last edited by Antoine : 01-21-2004 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:11 AM
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meriadoc meriadoc is offline
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

i'm just curious, what type of art could be sold? photographs? since thats my main line of work - fine art photography.
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:16 AM
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

hi antoine,

not a bad idea - i'll have peter look into that...

hi meriadoc,

yep - photography section is alreay planned. any suggestions on how to subdivide it into categories? b&w and color? subject matter?

another question for everyone: are etchings etc. and handmade prints considered prints? or would that need to be a separate category?

also, what is everyone's take on adding categories like pottery, carvings, etc. - artisans' stuff? that would bring more sellers and more buyers and give them an outlet for their work at the same time.
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:30 AM
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meriadoc meriadoc is offline
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

i frankly cannot stand the categories that ebay have - mainly because people will sell prints in whatever category they want...

just make it simplistic.

open + limited editions

and categories - still life, landscapes, floral, animals (not domestic and wild like what ebay have) etc etc..

the problem with ebay is that you've got so many different areas to look...
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:47 AM
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

hi meri,

yes, that is in the plans already...keeping it simple is what we're trying to do.
we have most of the category tree planned out already, mostly exactly along those lines.
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:50 AM
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Lady Rando Lady Rando is offline
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

Would be nice to have a catagory for sculptures. I sculpt and then cast in hydrostone. There is no real catagory on ebay for originals and their sculpture catagory is filled with imports, not originals or limited editions by the artist's themselves.
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:01 PM
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

hi lady rando,

yep, that's there already - however, i haven't come up with a good way to subdivide it: do we do that by subject matter, or materials used?
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:17 PM
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Salairawns Salairawns is offline
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorith
we could put a disclaimer of sorts on the site, that would verbally suggest the mass producers to go elsewhere, but we all know that those guys can't read

Fine them $1 for every listing that breaks the rule.
If they protest, tell them it was in the contract when they signed up (be sure to put it there). Give them ten days to file their appeal and convince you they weren't breaking the rules, then charge it immediately to the credit card account they used when they signed up.
You'll make money for awhile, and they'll eventually go away.
Crack down early and you'll keep them away.

I'd handle sculptures like paintings, with catagory breakdown of animals, abstract, fantasy, human, etc.
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Last edited by Salairawns : 01-21-2004 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:19 PM
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jocelynsart jocelynsart is offline
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

Ah ok Dorith, yes that would be very time consuming.
An art only auction site does not mean just paintings. It should be geared towards serving all types of artwork such as photographers, sculptors, print makers, etc. I think that categories would just need to be developed and artists list in appropriate ones pertaining to their listings. This is the problem, as mentioned, on eBay. People listing in whatever cat. they feel like in order to get viewers to look. Then. searchers can click on a Category within the Art Site for specific items they want to see. The "prints" part seems to be the most difficult, here and on eBay, to work out.
Galleries should not be excluded. I guess what would need to happen is that everyone who uses the site would need to keep their eyes open for anything that is a factory repro. and repros of known Masters, if it is decided that they are not wanted on the site. But, I can see how this is a hard thing to avoid. Prohibiting is a difficult thing. Also, judgeing by the listing is also hard in some cases, especially with shady descriptions meant to deceive.
If this site is going to possibly be large then I guess affiliation with WC won't be a good thing. You can't in the end, control what every lister does.
The point about people joining WC to get discounts on fees is a real good one.
Joss

Last edited by jocelynsart : 01-21-2004 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:19 PM
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jolie jolie is offline
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Re: New Art Only Auction Site in the works

When I mentioned 1 cent art, I was speaking in generalizations, because we know it usually means the factory produced junk. I don't really care what price people start at, as long as it's quality work. I'd like to know that if I choose to list in another venue that there is a bit more quality control. A jury panel would hopefully judge only on quality and not exclude anyone simply because the art is not their personal taste.

Perhaps you could require everyone to submit 3 good jpegs of their work and answer some basic questions about their materials and techniques, what inspires them, and why they love to paint. This would give you an opportunity to review the quality, see that they are actually the artist because they understand their materials and technique, and tell you a bit about them as a person and artist. It means you could weed out the people who are selling mass produced junk, as well as copycats who see someone is doing well and try to capitalize on someone else's ideas by stealing their style. This would require that someone has the time, of course, but would make legitimate artists feel more comfortable about the company they are keeping.

I have an idea how to offer Wetcanvas members a break without risking losing the sense of community when people join up just to get the price break. How about offer it only to people who joined prior to January 31, 2004? That way you know you are offering it only to people who are part of the community, and not people who are only looking for a deal.

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