gesso'd paper....

[oleCC]

I posted this question in another forum but think I should try here as well....
Since I am coating my watercolor paper on both sides with gesso (for several reasons)..I wonder if it is sealing the paper sufficiently to over-come the need to use totally acid free mat boards? Anyone have a clue? Think of the savings, if it does!
Carol

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[ameliajordan]

I have no idea but I'll be watching because I'm sure someone knows.

[Grace]

Carol I'm curious! Why do you coat your paper with gesso? I'm not even reallys sure what gesso is...maybe like a prime coat?

Grace

[LDianeJohnson]

Hi Carol,
If you are gessoing the paper to paint in oil that works fine as oil can penetrate pours surfaces. But if you are using a 100% rag paper for either watercolor, acrylic, gouche, or other water-based medium, the raw paper needs no further protection (except the usual, to frame under glass).

Gesso serves two purposes, one, to seal the surface so it is non-absorbant, the other to give a more smoother, yet still grainy surface to paint upon unless sanded.
Hope this helps.
Diane

[oleCC]

Diane...No, I think I must have worded it wrong - I am not trying to protect the paper with gesso, but using it as a backing before watercolor painting. It works so well
when using a very wet on wet application - since the absorbtion problem is gone. In my holiday card I posted here..for example. The colors stay more true too.
My question though, since it does act as a sealer, is acid free matboard still necessary?

Grace... Gesso is a sealant - more often used
on surfaces before oil painting etc. I use it on paper (140#) before using H2O oils also. Using it for watercolors is a way to create a smoother, less absorbant surface.
Since watercolors should be framed in acid free materials - I wondered if this sealant
avoided the dangers of the migrating acid.
Carol

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[billyg]

Hi Carol,
I dont know for sure but perhaps you may have answered yourself when you said makes LESS ABSORBENT surfaces.
The problem with using acidic paper is that it deteriorates and with the atmosphere and moisture.Needless to say exit one painting.What can happen can be seen on some paintings when moisture is present and "foxing "takes place.
You may think you are saving money, but its only delaying the end result as it will get to it in the end.
I have painted with wc on gessoed board and its fun like using HP paper but I wonder at the end result in time,.
Billyg

[oleCC]

billy...think you are right here. Even if I have thoroughly coated both sides and the edges with gesso...a mat that is not 100% acid free would still deteriorate sooner or later.,, ( even if the gesso had actually protected the watercolors ) You have to admit it was worth the thought ..hmmm
BTW: if anyone hasn't tried this gesso..go for it. I have "saved" quite a few paintings that would otherwise have gone into the circular file. Carol

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[billyg]

Its one of those questions that maybe we wont know the answer to.They may last two hundred years and then the decline, just the reputation goes lol.
Perhaps one of the guru's has an answer.
Billyg

[JeffG]

For those who've tried gessoing the paper for watercolor.... are we talking Acrylic Gesso, or the real stuff? I think I might play with both, but I'd like to know your experiences. I'd imagine the absorbany properties would be quite different between the 2.



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Jeff G.

[Grace]

Is Gesso opaque? Can you use it to cover up the watercolor?

Grace

[oleCC]

Jeff.. I am using American Journey Gesso..don't know if it is what you call the "real stuff"...but it is also used to re-claim watercolors. I know I asked for acrylic gesso when ordering..but what is the difference actually?

Grace... That is one of the glories of it all...softly scrub off colors and then when dry, apply gesso. Walla! you can start over!
Carol

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[This message has been edited by oleCC (edited December 19, 2000).]

[JeffG]

Originally posted by oleCC:
Jeff.. I am using American Journey Gesso..don't know if it is what you call the "real stuff"...but it is also used to re-claim watercolors. I know I asked for acrylic gesso when ordering..but what is the difference actually?

Simply put, traditional gesso & acrylic gesso are both a white paint that is used primarily to prime surfaces (canvas & panel mostly) prior to painting.

Traditional gesso: a mixture of water, glue (rabbitskin traditionally), a chalky substrate (whiting or marble dust powder) and titanium white to make it brilliant white & opaque. Not really for canvases, since its inflexible when it drys. It gives a clay-like, absorbant surface which can be sanded & polished to the artist's preference. I've never seen it come ready-made in liquid form. You either have to assemble the ingredients yourself, or Fredrix makes a dry powder that requires soaking & heating.

Acrylic gesso: Basically it's latex house paint. Almost all store-bought cans of gesso are this (check the small print) and all gesso-primed canvas use this too (Oil primed canvases are glue and white oil primer). Not a very porous surface.

Sounds like I dont like Acrylic gesso, and that's true for oil painting and egg tempera... its not as absorbant as traditional, and the acrylic surface just doesnt have a "feel" that I like. Some accomplished artists say they don't notice a difference and acrylic is easier and more stable, but from my research, they're in the minority.

As for use with watercolor, I'm not ready at this point to say one is better than the other, but for this discussion, I believe it's important to note that there are 2 kinds of gesso with potentially different surface properties & effects. In my spare time, I'm going to experiment with both.


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Jeff G.