Chili Pepper VS. RANA bead annealer

[AutumnH]

Well, it's official, I've finally put aside enough money for a kiln. I had my eye on the RANA bead annealer at Aura Lens. I had a few questions and Mike was a tremendous help. I've also been eyeing up the Chili Pepper annealer. They both sound like they'd work perfect for my needs. I work at the torch at several small sessions a week. So I will probably do some batch annealing and some right into the kiln after being made. I still feel like most of my beads are still "practice quality" but I've been getting requests for them from friends, coworkers, and even offers to buy some ( ).

While the RANA was my first choice, if I go with the Chili Pepper, that leaves me a good chunk of $ toward buying a minor torch and an oxy concentrator.

So, my question:
If you own or have owned either of these kilns, can you give me some feedback on them please?

Thanks so much,
Rona

(Does anyone have any idea how hard it's been to have enough money and still not have ordered one yet? Yeesh!)

[dread]

There is another thing to consider - space !
I have both a Toolbox annealer and a Glasshive Annealer (Love my glasshive and use it more - has to do with controller and the brick insides) both were about same price.
I like the brick better, I put rod supports inside to keep beads from floor for those I want off the floor in case they are too hot but I do put others on the floor. But a full day of beading and I fill this baby to capacity and sometimes they stack and touch and ruins the bead. This I find a problem.

I just bought the ring insert for my fusing kiln but it doesnt have a controller and that is a must.

I am not going to say what I would prefer here as only you know what you want to be able to do with your kiln, but look at space as well - the rana looks like it is bigger and can hold a lot more beads. The chilipepper has the blanket inside like the toolbox and restricts quantity (although others may not agree).

Right now I am looking at size of kiln and how many beads it can hold without having to really stack beads on top of each other while beading.

Not sure if I make sense here.

The Rana Warmer gets A++ from me and thanks from my cats so they dont have to head for cover when my glass is popping everywhere.

Originally Posted by AutumnH

Well, it's official, I've finally put aside enough money for a kiln. I had my eye on the RANA bead annealer at Aura Lens. I had a few questions and Mike was a tremendous help. I've also been eyeing up the Chili Pepper annealer. They both sound like they'd work perfect for my needs. I work at the torch at several small sessions a week. So I will probably do some batch annealing and some right into the kiln after being made. I still feel like most of my beads are still "practice quality" but I've been getting requests for them from friends, coworkers, and even offers to buy some ( ).

While the RANA was my first choice, if I go with the Chili Pepper, that leaves me a good chunk of $ toward buying a minor torch and an oxy concentrator.

So, my question:
If you own or have owned either of these kilns, can you give me some feedback on them please?

Thanks so much,
Rona

(Does anyone have any idea how hard it's been to have enough money and still not have ordered one yet? Yeesh!)

[AutumnH]

I looked at the specs for the two kilns and it looks like the Chili Pepper actually has a wider bead door, so if space for beads is an issue that is a plus there. Currently, I only bead in short bursts. Sometimes an hour at a time, though I've been known to squeeze in 2-3 hours at once. None of which ever feels like enough time.

Is there a real problem with stacking beads? I've seen it mentioned in other posts that the beads were placed across and then a second layer started. Until I get it, I'm not sure if I'll be batch annealing most, or going right from flame to kiln. Time will tell I guess.

Anyone else want to chime in with their experience/likes/dislikes about either of these?

Rona

[katmajic]

No help, only more questions, since I was just about to ask people about the Chili Pepper. At $535 including the controller it sounds like it would make my kiln owning days come way sooner. Since I use a hot head, and deal with cold gas canisters, so I can't bead for very long at a time anyway, usually if I make a dozen beads it was a very productive day, so I think that the size would be ok. Someday I'd like to do sculpture, but by then I'll have gotten rich making beads, right so having a second kiln and a studio and all will be no problem. OK my biggest question, since it's what scares me most about buying the kiln in the first place is the controller. Since the controllers I've looked at run over $400, will this one actually do what I need in an annealler without a whole lot of brain power behind it? I look at terms like "soak" and "ramp" and I just want to tell it "fix these" and be done with it. What do you all think? Will it work or do I need to keep on saving money?

[dread]

I do stack - as the kiln fills and after a bit I start to shift beads that have been in for a while to each side but I think sometimes I get too many and as I'm putting them in some may be still to soft and I hit them on the way in and they stick to each other -
Glass hive; is 18" long 4-1//2 high and 6" deep (controller set so that when you turn onswitch it heats up to 950 and stary till your ready to anneal. you then press one button hold and then another button to run the controller, holds for 2 hours, then progresses to 750 and then turns itself off.
about: 650.00
Toolbox : 16" long - 5" high and 7" wide - is programed when it comes to turn
on and run 8 hours then starts annealing cycle on its own and turns off
about: 685.00
Chili pepper kiln: 16" long - 6" tall 6-1/2" deep not sure of annealer set up.
about 535.00
Note that the Glasshive is the only firebrick kiln - the others have fibre blanket on the inside of the dimensions given and make the area smaller.

I prefer the firebrick kiln- glasshive
- Not particular about the fibre blanket in the toolbox or chilipepper- you can put a piece on the bottom of the brick kiln if you want - it comes with one. I like the set up of the controller although you can program the controllers to do the same on the chili and toolbox
You can use the brick kiln as a warmer - if you put too hot rods you get fibre all over your rods

[Paula D]

I use the Chili Pepper to anneal beads and a brick kiln to fuse glass. The Chili Pepper is a great annealer and there are several posts on WC from people who are happy with it. There are also several annealing schedules posted. I bought mine from Centre de Verre and it came with the Bartlett Controller. You can program 4 different annealing schedules into this and each one can have as many as 8 segments. (So you can have a moretti program that heats the kiln quickly and another that heats it slowly to batch anneal. You still have 2 left. Maybe one for boro and one for Satake or Kinari.) You can also change the programs once you have them in. I have aluminum foil on the bottom of mine to keep it clean and keep fuzz off of my beads. On the side of the Chili Pepper I"ve placed a magnetic pencil holder that I bought in Bed, Bath & Beyond. I stick rods into this to preheat them. I have a rod rest about an inch away from the back of the kiln so that I can double layer my beads. If you put them in red hot be sure you don't bump into another one or they will stick. Once they have cooled a bit you can start to stack them. My annealer is on fire bricks and on top of a layer of flame proof something or other that I bought at Home Depot. The one bit of advice I have is to be sure you have 12 inch mandrels. I started with 9 inch (being new) and had a lot of hot fingers. The Chili Pepper weighs only 17 or 18 pounds which makes life a wee bit easier!!! Good Luck. Paula

[LoriGreenberg-Beadnerd]

Ditto what Paula posted.

I love my Chili Pepper. The Bartlett controller is great. It has a little learning curve to get it programmed if you follow the directions that come with it, so use the schedules that others have posted here. Once it's in, it's in.

I also recommend Centre de Verre. Best price I found. I think mine was $518 w/ digital controller, a year ago.

Good luck!

[dread]

After all I've said - based on what "you" want to do
I would go with the Chili Pepper - sounds like Centre de Verre is your best bet.

1- It will accomplish what all the others will also do and that is anneal the beads while you work and has a controller and it "will" have enough room even for those heavy work days. (I didnt want to sound preachy above but reading what I wrote sheesh.....)

2 - leaves you with enough to get that minor and some gauges

3- Its Red my favorite color

[MikeAurelius]

Well, you'll get a chance to try the RANA annealer when you get up here for classes...

to answer the stacking issue, we also have an insert that goes into the kiln to rack up the beads.

Then, there's the service issue -- since you are only about 3 hours away, if there's ever a need for service (which I doubt), just pick up the phone and I'll schedule a visit of the Kiln Fairy (not to be confused with the Tooth Fairy or the Fab 5 ).

[Ignuss-Fatuus]

you may also check at centre de verre or something like that and check out the Jen Ken bead annealers. you can get one that has a digital controller for the same price as the chili pepper and it has more uses i thnk....and will last longer because its fire brick...thats just my opinion...as im happyas a clam with mine...still paying on it but happy as a clam
http://www.cdvkiln.com/menuglas.htm
the smaller jen ken bead annealer with bead door and digi cntroller is
$513 + $30 shipping
really reasonable....and Marty is fantastic to deal with.

[MikeAurelius]

Originally Posted by Ignuss-Fatuus

<snipped>....and will last longer because its fire brick...thats just my opinion...<snipped>

That's a common mis-conception. Any refractory will last as long as the way it's taken care of. And actually, because of the weight, fire brick has a higher probability of breakage if dropped than "frax" or cast refractory kilns.

There is a big debate of frax versus refractory versus brick. Each has its good and bad points.

Here's some brief points on each:

Frax: hazardous to breath. lightweight. heats and cools fast. will maintain closer temperature to set temperature under digital control than any other kiln. will cool too fast if power goes off during annealing cycle.

Cast Refractory: no hazards, vacuum dust with HEPA filtered vacuum. lightweight. heats and cools fast. maintains close temperature to digital controller. may cool too fast if power goes off during annealing cycle.

Brick: no hazards, vacuum dust with HEPA filtered vacuum. very heavy. heats and cools very slowly. may not maintain close temperature to digital controller, especially during cool down cycle. will not cool too fast if power goes off during annealing cycle.

Digital controllers:

Look at the controller itself. How many programs (also called profiles) does it hold? How many segments per program (profile)? How does it handle power resets? How easy is it to program (re-program)?

If you are planning on working only soft glass, then a single program (profile) controller is all you need. However, if you ever plan on working boro, or plan to switch back and forth, you will need a multi program (profile) controller, or be prepared to re-program the controller every time you need to change glass types.

There are two standard "industrial" controllers being used: the Fuji PXV3 and the West 6400. The Fuji is by far the most used, but probably the "worst" to read and understand the manual. It has only one program (profile) with 4 segments, with each segment being a temperature, ramp time and soak time. The West 6400 has 4 programs (profiles) with 16 segments, where each segment is a time and temperature.

[Ignuss-Fatuus]

I know my bartlett 3 key controller hold i think it is 4 programs and each program can have 8 segments.....I believe that is correct...Im just really happy with my kiln and I believe it will last me a long time..... I just like it and lots of people like the Rana and Toolbox kilns too for the same reasons they work for them its just a matter of what you need.
karin

[AutumnH]

Well, you'll get a chance to try the RANA annealer when you get up here for classes...

to answer the stacking issue, we also have an insert that goes into the kiln to rack up the beads.

Then, there's the service issue -- since you are only about 3 hours away, if there's ever a need for service (which I doubt), just pick up the phone and I'll schedule a visit of the Kiln Fairy (not to be confused with the Tooth Fairy or the Fab 5 ).

Well that's an incredible plus, in addition to the fact that everyone needs fairies visiting!

Frax: hazardous to breath. lightweight. heats and cools fast. will maintain closer temperature to set temperature under digital control than any other kiln. will cool too fast if power goes off during annealing cycle.

How is this hazardous, and which category does the RANA and/or Chili Pepper fall into? They aren't brick, but that's as far as my expertise goes.

Wow, who knew making beads would turn into a college course of research, but I'm loving every minute of it!

[MikeAurelius]

Originally Posted by AutumnH

Well that's an incredible plus, in addition to the fact that everyone needs fairies visiting!



How is this hazardous, and which category does the RANA and/or Chili Pepper fall into? They aren't brick, but that's as far as my expertise goes.

Wow, who knew making beads would turn into a college course of research, but I'm loving every minute of it!

I define frax as fiber blanket material - I don't know what the Chili Pepper uses, sorry. The RANA kilns use cast refractory, 2" thick.

Frax tends to shed fibers over time, and even worse, if it is disturbed in any way, will shed fibers in the air. The only time it should be used is as an insulation material where the space being insulated cannot be accessed by humans (enclosed, sealed space). Exposed fiber blanket is not good for your long term lung health.

[AutumnH]

Wow, great information, Mike. I think I've learned something every time you post.

I have lots of things to think about, and I've pretty much got my mind made up. I appreciate everyone's response to my questions!

Rona