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Old 08-03-2018, 05:21 PM
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Kaylen Kaylen is offline
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Re: Altering another artists work

I think I'd have to agree with theBongolian... It makes me wonder if the altered work were displayed in public with the original signiture, thre might be some kind of slander issues
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Old 08-04-2018, 10:26 AM
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Pat Ryan Pat Ryan is offline
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Re: Altering another artists work

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBongolian
when you buy a painting you own it and you can do anything you want to it, just like your car or refrigerator. The only thing you can not do is make a copy of it - that is protected by copyright law. Conservators paint on top of paintings all the time. people spill coffee on their paintings. and some people paint over them. no copyng -- no copyright violation.

copyright protects your right to make a copy of the image - it does not give you the right to tell me what i do with the painting i bought (other than not make a copy)

Nope! Copyright protection applies not only to reproductions, but to alterations of a work. By creating a new work that utilizes substantial elements of a copyrighted work, you would be creating a "derivative work" without the copyright owner's permission, and that's a violation of copyright law.

The reason I'm kinda geeky on the subject of copyright is that my first "real" job when I lived in NYC was as copyright editor for a major publisher, so I had to bone up on this stuff. For those who care, here's chapter and verse from the US Copyright Statutes:

106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works
Subject to sections 107 through 122 [exceptions for fair use such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research], the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work…


And as I said before, who's name goes on the altered work? Yours or the original artist's? Would that artist even want his name on a painting that you'd changed?

106a. Rights of certain authors to attribution and integrity
(a) Rights of Attribution and Integrity.—Subject to section 107 and independent of the exclusive rights provided in section 106, the author of a work of visual art—
(1) shall have the right—
(A) to claim authorship of that work, and
(B) to prevent the use of his or her name as the author of any work of visual art which he or she did not create;
(2) shall have the right to prevent the use of his or her name as the author of the work of visual art in the event of a distortion, mutilation, or other modification of the work which would be prejudicial to his or her honor or reputation…


So altering someone else's painting is not only uncool, it really is a violation, except in the case of conservation. (Damage as a result of the passage of time is also an exception.)

It would likely never become a legal issue--IOW, get you sued by the original artist--unless you tried to make money off the derivative work. But the very idea of messing around with another artist's work, even just to hang in the privacy of one's home, makes me queasy.

Pat
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Old 08-04-2018, 10:34 AM
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bleu bleu is offline
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Re: Altering another artists work

Welcome Pat Ryan and Thank Yo u!
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Old 08-04-2018, 10:50 AM
IanBertram IanBertram is offline
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Re: Altering another artists work

^^^The words I was looking for!
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Old 08-04-2018, 12:19 PM
theBongolian theBongolian is offline
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Re: Altering another artists work

Could you point out the part that applies. I m not seeing it.
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Old 08-04-2018, 01:30 PM
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Pat Ryan Pat Ryan is offline
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Re: Altering another artists work

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBongolian
Could you point out the part that applies. I m not seeing it.

...the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work…


If you alter someone else's painting, it's a derivative work.
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Old 08-06-2018, 01:22 PM
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creativevintage creativevintage is offline
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Re: Altering another artists work

I was able to get some of the back story from a mutual acquaintance ...it was a commission and the artist has been trying collect the remainder of the balance owed to her for two years now. All was well in the beginning, but about a year later, someone from the church decided that they wanted a small depiction of the church added to the painting. The artist was hesitant because they had still not paid the remainder of what they owed for the original work.



So glad I declined.
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Old 08-06-2018, 01:52 PM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
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Re: Altering another artists work

Wow. You sure dodged a bullet.
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Old 08-15-2018, 02:36 PM
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Re: Altering another artists work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbaba
I do not see what the problem is. Once you sell a painting, the work becomes property of the buyer, and if he wants it modified, altered, he has the right to it.

I read about a modification performed to an old dutch master work, the painting was property of the queen of Ingland:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ing-180957156/

Many new copyright laws are on the book since the 17th century. Elizabeth the 1st was a few hundred years ago. I doubt there were any copyright laws at all back then. People were not too concerned with "the rights of mankind" or whatever. In the USA and most Western countries, (who knows what is going on in China!). the Artist retains copyright whether the painting was sold or not. The owner has the right to cut it up and use it as decoupage, burn it, roll over it with a car, but he can't take a picture of it and publish it without permission, he can't copy it. He can't offer someone money to make a copy either.

Altering a painting might have other significant legal risks (now, not in Elizabethan England).
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Old 08-19-2018, 02:17 AM
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Cindy Schnackel Cindy Schnackel is offline
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Re: Altering another artists work

Quote:
Originally Posted by creativevintage
I was able to get some of the back story from a mutual acquaintance ...it was a commission and the artist has been trying collect the remainder of the balance owed to her for two years now. ...

Yes, good thing you declined for that reason alone! How sleazy of them to deal with people this way. Pat Ryan is right about copyright law. There’s also a newer and only slightly tested law, the visual artists rights act, (VARA), that deals in ‘moral rights.’
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:24 AM
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LoganArt LoganArt is offline
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Re: Altering another artists work

My husband is an appraiser so I asked him about this issue. Here is what he said.
The copyright belongs to the artist, all as Pat Ryan said. The buyer does not purchase the rights, only the painting.
Altering the work means it cannot be sold and still attributed to the original artist (and would be a big tangle).

So, (me again) the church is making a huge mistake. As someone on church staff for the past hundred years, I’m appalled. They’ve got some new board member tey’re trying to impress by accommodating his whims. And they budgeted to pay for it prior to the commission — pay up!

The original artist should go and retrieve the work, since they didn’t finish paying they don’t own it.
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