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Old 11-06-2003, 07:51 PM
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Talking Charles Bargue: Cours de Dessin



Just got an email confirmation from the Dahesh Museum in NY that the first republication of the famous drawing book, Cours de Dessin, [written and illustrated by Charles Bargue, and co-written by Jean Leon Gerome] is available. The book is considered an atelier standard.

After discovering that a lot of the ateliers have beginning students reproduce the books lithographs, termed Bargue drawings, I have been on the hunt for this book. Most of the online antique book dealers were selling 100yr old copies priced in the hundreds of dollars. This is the first translated version available!

The Dahesh Museum webshop has been revamped and does not have online ordering available. Here is an email address where you can get ordering information. My order is already in!

[email protected]
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:09 PM
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Here are few scans from the lithos.



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Last edited by Classical Vince : 11-06-2003 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 11-06-2003, 10:33 PM
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Vince, sounds exiting... what is the price though?

Julia
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Old 11-07-2003, 12:57 AM
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Hi Julia! The hardcover was $65 +$8 shipping and softcover was $45 +$6 shipping. Not too bad but its hard to say without seeing the quality of the reproductions. The original was known for having high quality lithos. I am just as interested in reading the Gerome text though. Im still smiling. lol.
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Old 11-07-2003, 11:04 AM
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Craig Houghton Craig Houghton is offline
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I've just been doing some reading / research on Bargue drawings. Ahh, Vince, there's things brewing in my head -- I'm doing my very best not to channel all of my resources and attention towards art.. but, damn -- I want formal training! I've recently finished my BA in english, and I need to make the move from part time DBA/programming work to something full time, but then again, I wouldn't mind living like a pauper while attending a proper art school.

For now, I'll get this book. Thanks Vince.

-Craig
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Old 11-07-2003, 11:37 AM
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Hi Craig! Decisions decisions! Being a pauper is the reason I am working fulltime and going to school! lol. Here are a couple more scans from the book.



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Old 11-07-2003, 06:32 PM
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Thank You, Vince!

Julia
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Old 11-11-2003, 12:06 PM
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Classical Vince-
I've had a hard time finding a original copy of Cours De Dessin. You mentioned in a earlier post you saw some selling on antique book sites. Could you please tell me which sites those possibly were? Any information would be helpful in tracking down this book!

-Rick
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Old 11-11-2003, 06:15 PM
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Hi Rick. The last time I checked a classmate and I split up and both hunted around the web...about a year ago. I have no idea where we found it but I remember it was around $400-500. I tried to do a little research for you today but didnt find ANYTHING.

I'll ask the same classmate if she might have the links still. I am hoping the reproductions are adequate to study from in the Dahesh release of the book.

btw - In hunting around I read that both Picasso and VanGogh were trained from the Bargue Drawings. Can't wait to get my copy!

-CV
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Old 11-11-2003, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Classical Vince
.

btw - In hunting around I read that both Picasso and VanGogh were trained from the Bargue Drawings. Can't wait to get my copy!

-CV

see that's what most people don't understand...most of the great modern artists were classically trained, but in the late 60's early 70's that was all thrown aside. Like most education, art education was "dumbed down"
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Old 11-11-2003, 09:42 PM
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Hi Arlene. You can add S.Dali and J.Pollack to the list of 20th century artists who received classical instruction too.

There are good art teachers out there but I feel like the academic model of instruction; assignments, due dates, class size, and grades are not suited for art instruction. Its a 20th century model of teaching art that has yet to be proven effective.

Uh oh. Now Im on a roll. lol.

About the book...I remember reading a quote from Gerome who said something like...it was written to find artists not living in the cities; to prepare and inspire them to find instruction in the ateliers.
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Old 11-12-2003, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by arlene


see that's what most people don't understand...most of the great modern artists were classically trained, but in the late 60's early 70's that was all thrown aside. Like most education, art education was "dumbed down"

It is funny that you say that, Arlene...I always thought that information was a known by anyone studying or trying to emulate these famous artists.

They came to a point in their evolution of trying to do things a new way which they found exciting and different.
(not my taste but I guess it excited quite a few generations )
You are right...people forget they studied in the "old school."

I'm old enough to agree with the fact there has been the "dumbing down" of generally the rest of education...I've seen the results of it. *sigh*

Vince, those are beautiful illustrations!
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Last edited by AutumnJoy : 11-12-2003 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 11-12-2003, 09:35 AM
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I would love to pick this one up after the first of the year. I am fortunate to have several of these to my disposal at school, but to be able to really go through them and pick and choose from the entire collection would be amazing. As I understand it, there are horse heads and many that I have not had the opportunity to see yet.

I have done two of these. As much of a struggle as they are, I need to do more, or even repeat the ones I have done. There is a tutorial of sorts and a bit of a discussion going on in a different forum that might be of interest to you. He is using the same Bargue that you have posted here.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...threadid=12104

With the book comming out, I am not sure what kind of copywrite issues are going to pop up with artists sharing the bargues amongst themselves. Does anyone know the answer to this?
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Old 01-17-2004, 08:32 PM
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Re: Charles Bargue: Cours de Dessin

Quote:
In hunting around I read that both Picasso and VanGogh were trained from the Bargue Drawings. Can't wait to get my copy!"

GAH! I hate hearing this! haha

I got in a big argument elsewhere on here about Picasso and his training. Half of Picasso's life is a lie... he studied under his father in a small studio, not a well known atelier or "art school" (which didn't exist at that time) which many people think. His father wasn't a very accomplished artist (he did paintings of pigeons mostly... not exactly a figurative artist) and Picasso literally took classes in Ornament Making. This is not an exaggeration: he literally took classes at this WONDERFUL school in making ornaments. It wasn't an atelier, it was more comparable to Michael's craft classes.

As far as Van Gogh... yes and no. He started at an atelier, and shortly after he started there he was working from the live model. Someone there suggested that he go back to doing cast drawings (which was an insult, saying that he wasn't good enough to work from a live model). Van Gogh got very angry and smashed the plaster casts and walked out. Years later he realized that he should be trained and was motivated to do so. His motivation ran out very quickly though, and after two weeks he quit the program.

Van Gogh was GOOD with color, but his drawing skills weren't as good as the other "masters." He wasn't trained to draw as well as them, that's why. He DID want to draw like them (thus him coming back to atelier, and him talking about it in his many letters to Theo) but he just didn't know how.

As for Pollack; I know nothing about his life, so I couldn't comment on that at all, eh!

I'm not meaning to insult Van Gogh here, he probably could have been up there "skill-wise" with the other old masters, if he could have kept his motivation. Though, I do still mean to insult Picasso. Sorry, but I don't like him whatsoever. haha
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Old 01-18-2004, 10:13 PM
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Re: Charles Bargue: Cours de Dessin

Hi Keith. Both Picasso and VanGogh are documented to have studied Bargue drawings.

http://www.aristos.org/aris-03/brief-12.htm

Here are few clips from the article:

Quote:
In 1881, Vincent wrote to his brother Theo:

Careful study & repeated copying of Bargue's Exercises . . . have given me a better insight into figure-drawing. I have learned to measure and to see and to look for the broad outlines so that, thank God, what seemed utterly impossible to me before is gradually becoming possible to me now . . . I no longer stand as helpless before nature as I used to do.


Regarding Picasso:

Quote:
Drawings by both Van Gogh and Picasso based on the Bargue plates are included in the illuminating exhibition Charles Bargue: The Art of Drawing, now on view at the Dahesh Museum of Art in New York City (through February 8, 2004).

As for the ornamental training Picasso had...hmmm; his earlier studies would suggest classical academic training, models and all. I understood him to have been properly schooled but I refuse to troll the web just to read up on the bum.
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