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Old 11-03-2003, 06:43 PM
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idahogirl idahogirl is offline
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Question Glazing in Oil

I have had a little classical training at Mission Renaissance in Southern California but we kind of whizzed by glazing. I have tried a few on my own and something isn't right. What happens is that I get a fairly decent tonal underpainting in shades of grey but when I start glazing, it is drab and looks like I am coloring a black and white photograph. I drool over the beautifully glazed paintings I see at the museums and wonder how they did it. Is it multiple glazes???

Thanks for your help.

Dee
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Old 11-03-2003, 08:35 PM
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Re: Glazing in Oil

Quote:
Originally posted by deefox
Is it multiple glazes???

Thanks for your help.

Dee

I'm not an oil painter, but would tend to think since doing acrylics that you answered your own question...someone want to back me up or call me on the carpet.
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Old 11-04-2003, 09:57 AM
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hi.. I think the biggest mystery to glazing is just where and when to use it. I used to think you could just glaze over a monochrome underpainting, but I found, as you have, it does not look right. I belive the trick is to not just restrict yourself to glazing just because you did an underpainting, you still NEED opaque applications of paint as well as glazes and scumbles, and definately if you are going to glaze many THIN layers are needed to get the "oh wow" results you see in the old masters work

some only use a glaze when everything is just about done to adjust a tone or color , or even glaze the entire painting with a single color to unify the painting and make it all appear to be in the same picture, some use to build depth of the darks, and even a couple of old masters used it for color mixing , i.e. a blue glaze over yellow color makes green, I hear that is the most difficult way to use a glaze
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Old 11-04-2003, 11:58 AM
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Loop,.

Thanks, it's good to know it's not just me. One has to start thinking like a watercolorist!

Thanks again,

Dee
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Old 11-04-2003, 02:40 PM
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hehe

but not really...I have just started oils and my watercolor background is hurting....I keep trying to use glazes....and the results are NOT the same

loop....I think the idea of a glaze to unuify is wonderful.....would you think a neutral color??

and how thin a glaze......

I find if it is too thin...it just separates.....I do think you can successfully glaze over a grissaile.....but I surely can't yet
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Old 11-04-2003, 02:53 PM
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I am working with oils only for 3 month and now trying the glazing and... it takes forever! As I have to wait for each layer to dry but ... I am trying

In acrylic it is much easier as layers dry almost immediatelyI start wondering if to leave the glazing just for my acrylic's works.

But like Dee I just drool over glazed oil paintings

In acrylics I use glazing when painting the water to give it depth but on others to unify the colors

Julia
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Old 11-04-2003, 03:09 PM
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I never could get watercolors to do anything besides frustrate me so I cannot compare

to strictly glaze over an underpainting sort of implies that there would be no white except what shows through from the underpainting. I belive the master's of the past used it mainly for the darks and to build depth and then thick opaque paint for the lights, and then a glaze over that, then a scumble, then a glaze then some more thick, then some... you get the point as many layers as you like

to uinify, the color that would work best would depend on the painting, I used a burnt sienna once over the entire painting, rubbed some areas out for my lightest lights, and it helped bring everything together making it look like it was all in the same scene, where before it appeared like a bunch of "cut and paste" images

YLCIA I would add something to speed the drying I got sick of the wait 4 weeks between layers approach (I'm still actually working on it)
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Old 11-04-2003, 06:26 PM
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The thing to remember......

The thing to remember when glazing is that it always darkens the color..... the more glazes the darker it gets.
That's why I believe your need to determine why you want to glaze and the effects you are after.
I know Turner used glazes and I remember reading a story about one of his paintings where it was hung for the show....and it had beautiful colors.... then the day before the show he showed up with a mixture and proceeded to glaze a yellow over the whole painting. I do know that he used to carry a very small pallette and paints with him to the shows and he was caught a few times touching up some of his paintings...

Also, use very light colors for your glazes to try to keep the light in the painting.....
And sometimes use a glaze to affect a color... say a yellow glazed over a painted blue for a different green....

just food for thought....
Another nugget: use quick drying paints for your underpaint mixed with an alkyd medium(don't throw rocks at my head!), and then use an alkyd medium as your glazing medium. (for those of you who hate to wait.
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Old 11-04-2003, 08:06 PM
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Hi
Glazing have been used and are used for different reasons, to create shade, a different tone of colour, to tone it down or to lighten an area, The old masters also used glazes to create colours they couldnt get other ways.
The masters of glaze built up paintings glaze after glaze, and it had to be dry first before u apply the next layer.
Also if the underpainting is sligthly dirty, the glaze will only make the errors, or dirt become even more visible to the eye.
Glazes are used over opaque underlayers mostly, both in colour and in monocrome.. mostly I would recomend coloured layer, or else it will take u forever to create the colour you want.
Also a problem with glaze is dust, dust particles get in the rich oiled areas wich takes a long time to dry.

heres a link about glazing, on a study of the old master vermeer.
Hope it helps http://girl-with-a-pearl-earring.20m...ng_Glazing.htm

ancelica
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Old 11-05-2003, 10:17 AM
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hey you ^ ^ ^ ^ up there ^^ great link
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Old 11-06-2003, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
What happens is that I get a fairly decent tonal underpainting in shades of grey but when I start glazing, it is drab and looks like I am coloring a black and white photograph. I drool over the beautifully glazed paintings I see at the museums and wonder how they did it. Is it multiple glazes???


I noticed this at first, but that colored-over b&w effect doesn't last. As you keep adding transparent layers the colors become more and more rich in their own right, and they loose the drab but keep the values. On those kiwis I painted a while back I must have had 15 + layers in some spots.

Also, regarding lights, I'd read that it's a good idea to keep the key a bit high on the grisaille and count on the layer depth to lower the value. While I found they did darken a bit, the effect wasn't as profound as I expected. In the end I found that the grisaille should have been fairly true to my desired end-values.

As far as the light-lights go -- I only built up layered glazes where they were needed, and I left the lightest areas to a glaze or two. In the end though, I used some opaque hightlights, scumbling, and other such techniques along with the glazing.

-Craig
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Old 11-06-2003, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pampe
hehe

but not really...I have just started oils and my watercolor background is hurting....I keep trying to use glazes....and the results are NOT the same


I'm having the same problem switching from colored pencils to acrylics..
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Old 11-06-2003, 06:18 AM
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I always paint in thin layers using glazing.
I think it works well for me as I "block in" the areas of the piece in local colors as I start the painting.
I have used either stand oil or Liquin in the ubsequent layers.
The best example of this is my painting of Lizzie (Dalmatian) it is all glazing and I didn't lose any of the color as I went along but built on the under painting.

I will post the example in the next couple of posts....
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Old 11-06-2003, 06:20 AM
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then this layer continued...
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Old 11-06-2003, 06:24 AM
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Then a few more layerings until this result...but you can see the addition and adjustment of the layers of color I applied...
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