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Old 04-14-2017, 11:00 AM
contumacious contumacious is offline
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Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

I knew that Pastel Premier was not alcohol resistant but I thought it was water resistant. I found out recently that water does indeed soften the surface and change the tooth. I called them up and they said they are working on a water and alcohol resistant surface but that doesn't help me. That leaves only OMS for liquid washed underpaintings with no change in the surface which is a no go for as it takes too long to dry.

The whole point of a liquid set underpainting as I use it, is to get the type of color coverage I want without filling the tooth too much or changing the texture. Last week I tested some Pastel Premier that was purchased a couple of years ago and was sad to discover that water does indeed loosen up the grit and make it less abrasive. I actually had the grit coming completely off the paper revealing the white paper below with some extra scrubbing with a brush and water.

This is my favorite paper for color and tooth, but unfortunately I will need to stop using this batch for my current needs. Lately every work I am planning will require some serious use of alcohol or water washed underpainting.

Please list any pastel papers that you have found to be totally resistant to alcohol and/or water used in underpaintings as I will need to buy a new roll. I have notes on some I tested but can't seem to find them.
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:45 AM
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CM Neidhofer CM Neidhofer is offline
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

Pastel Mat or Ampersand PastelBord are what I use if I want to wash a background.
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Old 04-14-2017, 12:26 PM
contumacious contumacious is offline
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

Christine thanks for the comment - It made me realize that I forgot to specify sanded papers only.
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:30 PM
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westcoast_Mike westcoast_Mike is offline
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

You can often get away with using paper that isn't listed as being Alcohol proof by using 90% IPA and letting it dry completely. This takes longer than most people think. A good hour or longer.
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:21 PM
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

Quote:
Originally Posted by contumacious
Christine thanks for the comment - It made me realize that I forgot to specify sanded papers only.
Pastel Mat and PastelBord are sanded supports.
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:05 PM
spydersmomtammy spydersmomtammy is offline
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

I've had good luck with wet underpaintings using Pastelbord and UArt.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:39 PM
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

Canson Touch will work, too.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:54 PM
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

Uart paper. It comes in different grits from 280 to 800 and takes water, alcohol and OMS, as well as watercolor, oil and acrylic underpaintings. Plus it is less expensive then most of the other sanded and/or textured papers. It comes in a "sand" color which is easy to cover with an underpainting and will take almost unlimited layers of pastels, even the 800, though I'd recommend the 400 or 500 grit. It also comes in rolls.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:16 AM
contumacious contumacious is offline
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

Thanks everyone. It sounds like UArt is probably going to be the one for me. I tried some Canson Touch and didn't like it very much.

I only tried 70% IPA. I will check some 90%. I am wondering if 90%+ methyl or ethyl alcohol behaves the same as 90% IPA on this paper. I have a bunch of it so I would like to find a liquid that evaporates at least as fast as water that doesn't soften the glue if such a thing exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Neidhofer
Pastel Mat and PastelBord are sanded supports.

Thanks for the info RE: Alcohol for these two however.....

Pastelmat is not a sanded paper, it is coated with cellulose fibers. I tried a few sheets and it didn't work well for my technique.

I am not interested in working on any pastel boards ( I have tried them all) other than I would use those that are made with sanded paper attached to rigid board if the cost was the same as what I can make my own for.

Last edited by contumacious : 04-16-2017 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:29 PM
contumacious contumacious is offline
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

I tried some 90% IPA. It still softens the tooth noticeably with a very light application with a synthetic sable brush. I only brushed enough, and very softly to spread the pastel dust evenly. My calibrated fingertip indicates a a 25.13% loss of grit coarseness.

I can only assume that 90%+ methyl and ethyl alcohol will do the same thing.......
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:54 AM
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

90% will soften the glue so I don't recommend it for PA. But, the glue will reset after it dries completely. I took a WS with Clark Mitchell and he indicated he uses it with LaCarte. With the same caveat about drying.

If you do not like Pastelmat, then I recommend the 400 grit in Uart. You will probably find the 500\800 to be too smooth.
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Last edited by westcoast_Mike : 04-17-2017 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:28 PM
contumacious contumacious is offline
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

Thanks all.

I found a small sheet of UArt in my paper drawer and it holds up really well to 90% IPA. I will have to order more. Unfortunately my wholesale account with a vendor doesn't sell the UArt....
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:54 AM
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

Dakota Pastels has UArt paper on sale right now and I just noticed that they now sell it in rolls as well as sheets. http://www.dakotapastels.com/pages/paper-uart.html

Doug
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:05 AM
contumacious contumacious is offline
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Re: Papers that are water and alcohol "proof"

Thanks Doug.

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