Painting on old canvas

Nikademus · #1 10-26-2003, 10:50 AM

Hiyall. About a year of more ago I started to paint an oil painting of my daughter from a photograph, I got so far and I didn't like it as I couldn't get the eyes and her colouring right. I have decided to have another go when my daughter comes home from Switzerland next week and then finish it over Christmas. I dont want to scrap the 18x20 canvas. How should I start the painting again on the old canvas? What treatment should I give it as I am sure it has some dust on it? Should I gesso it and start from scratch? All replies will be helpful. Many thanks.

Matt Sammekull · #2 10-26-2003, 11:37 AM

Welcome to WetCanvas and the fine forum of oil painting.

First solution:

Wipe the surface clean with a damp cloth, then go over the surface with the half of a potato, letting the natural starch of the potato clean of the top layer of fat (from the air) and other nasty non-identified particles.
Then, use the cloth again to wipe clean. Finally damp another cloth with some linseed oil and wipe over the surface.

Ready to be used again. (A technique I have used successfully a few times)

Second way:

Sand everything down and clean with medium, gesoo and go to work.

//matt

guillot · #3 10-26-2003, 06:42 PM

A Potato? Wow! I've learned a new tip. Thanks Matt!!

Matt Sammekull · #4 10-27-2003, 06:49 AM

- a potato. You could also use an onion, but the smell brings tears to your eyes!

//matt

loop · #5 10-27-2003, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt V
- a potato. You could also use an onion, but the smell brings tears to your eyes!

//matt

hi-ya .. I also heard that a clove of garlic would work, man and I thought my paintings stink now.

by the way just what constitutes old , so as to need to use this process? I have some I have not touched in a few months

Matt Sammekull · #6 10-27-2003, 08:26 AM

How's it going?

Garlic??? Love it in food, but I'll keep it away from my canvases though.

The procedure I mentioned above is something I go through when my canvases have rested too long, as in I didn't work on them for a month or so.
It just freshens up the surface and makes it nice to work on again.

//matt

Eugene Veszely · #7 10-27-2003, 09:34 AM

Why a potato ?? What chemical properties does it have ??

I have dust on my paintings that I have had sitting around for over 12 months....is dust that big a problem if I paint over the top??

Nikademus · #8 10-27-2003, 03:48 PM

Matt. Many thanks for your reply I will give a potato a go, I dont know about using an onion though

midcoast · #9 10-27-2003, 04:08 PM

I clean the surface well with turps, let it dry, then apply my own mixture of retouch varnish to the old surface before painting again (I paint in oils too, btw). The retouch varnish is a mixture of stand oil, dammar varnish, and turps...I think the ratio is 1:1:3, but I'm not 100% sure at the moment. I can look it up when I'm back in my studio if you need it. Let the retouch varnish sit for 10-15 minutes so it starts to set up.

The retouch varnish acts as a "glue" between the new paint and the old paint. It also gives you the ability to do a wet-on-wet look.

I learned the hard way that painting oil over an oil oil, with no surface preparation results in the new paint peeling. My preference now, of course, is alla prima, but when that doesn't work out, I reach for my retouch varnish.

Nancy

Matt Sammekull · #10 10-27-2003, 04:25 PM

I dunno what it is in the potato that makes it useful for these kind of tasks... but it has something to do with the starch I believe.

Just split a raw potato in half, and use the cut surface to go over the canvas. It works.. and it's cheap... and it doesn't smell...

//matt

Linoxyn · #11 10-27-2003, 06:37 PM

I know that people in Scandinavia (probably England too) carry a potato in their glove compartment in case the car's wiper blade happens to fail in a rainfall... Why? The potato, garlic, and onion, and many other concentrated and/or starchy liquids contain ingredients that cut surface tension of liquids... many of these substances can emulsify with an oil. Saliva even works...

As for paintings - straight oil paint as it dries to linoxyn (hey that's me!) is a fairly porous surface (that's why it needs to be varnished) needs only to be kept clean of dust getting on the surface and if any area seems a bit slick because of the way some paints have built up, give them a bit of a ruffing up with a scruby pad or very fine sandpaper. Adding other ingredients like resins and thickened oils will create a slicker surface easier when painting.

I know that some of these 'tricks' can and do work (garlic is very antiseptic) though I'd rather err on the safe side and avoid anything extra added that can possibly harm the painting.

So if you have a painting that is 3 months old to 3 years old... there is no harm in continuing your painting as long as it's a clean surface. It's always best to protect the surface as it sits because dust and dirt will actually bore it's way into the linoxyn matrix.

xavier · #12 10-27-2003, 08:16 PM

Well I guess you've gotten a lot of good advice.Many,many
painters have used old canvas,I for one but if I were you
I'd be careful.Pentimento can ruin a beautiful work even after gesso~ If you have the money I'd start with a fresh canvas~
Frank(newbe)

loop · #13 10-28-2003, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Linoxyn
I know that people in Scandinavia (probably England too) carry a potato in their glove compartment in case the car's wiper blade happens to fail in a rainfall... Why? The potato, garlic, and onion, and many other concentrated and/or starchy liquids contain ingredients that cut surface tension of liquids... many of these substances can emulsify with an oil. Saliva even works...

As for paintings - straight oil paint as it dries to linoxyn (hey that's me!) is a fairly porous surface (that's why it needs to be varnished) needs only to be kept clean of dust getting on the surface and if any area seems a bit slick because of the way some paints have built up, give them a bit of a ruffing up with a scruby pad or very fine sandpaper. Adding other ingredients like resins and thickened oils will create a slicker surface easier when painting.

I know that some of these 'tricks' can and do work (garlic is very antiseptic) though I'd rather err on the safe side and avoid anything extra added that can possibly harm the painting.

So if you have a painting that is 3 months old to 3 years old... there is no harm in continuing your painting as long as it's a clean surface. It's always best to protect the surface as it sits because dust and dirt will actually bore it's way into the linoxyn matrix.

well I gues that post somewhat confused me.. are you saying that you, to be safe, do not use the potato but just lightly sand the painting first?? if so I am curious as what your thouhts are about the use of lead paint and the light sanding putting particles in the air ?....uuummm and we ARE talking about working on an existing painting not painting OVER a painting with a new one

Linoxyn · #14 10-28-2003, 10:18 AM

Good points loop and easy to answer.

I don't ever get a slick surface maybe because of the way I paint and partly because of the paint I use so creating a new tooth or surfacing it with garlic or potato is not necessary. If you are using lead paint throughout your work then by all means just use a scrubbing technique - an eraser or some nylon pad will work. This will create enough tooth.

If you are restarting a new painting on an old canvas (one that has not been final varnished - extra steps have to be taken), make sure the surface is clean, and just give the painting surface an oil paint (not gesso or primer) layer of lead white plus ivory black and/or some other tinting colour - neutral to mid-light in value. Remember the old textures will show through your new layers of paint. And as Frank said, pentimento can show up after time... though if we want to prove ourself in the league of Titian then pentimento is what was desired in his time... the working process revealed

of course this only applies to a work in progress where you change some elements of design.

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