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Old 10-07-2003, 02:54 PM
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postalblue postalblue is offline
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direct vs. indirect painting

i'm interested in knowing how people usually tackle a new painting. do you usually paint alla prima, wet in wet or indirect?
what is your first instinct?

in what order? is there anyone there who paints the foreground first? what about painting all the middle values first, and then adding the strongest shadows and highlights?

if anyone would care to list their usual steps to completing a painting, i'd love to hear it.
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Old 10-07-2003, 04:35 PM
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yoyita_yoyita yoyita_yoyita is offline
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Well, in general I have an idea of what I want to paint, then I do an sketch, it could be in pencil on paper and later transfer it to canvas or most commonly I draw directly on the canvas with a brush.

If you are a beginner I would suggest you do a thumbnail, then and sketch in pencil and another sketch in colors to have an idea.
The thumbnail will help you to distribute the darks and light on the painting, the drawing will tell you placement and composition and the color one, temperature, harmony etc.

when you transfer it to the canvas, one of the easier methods is to place the darkest dark first and start working it out toward lights.

I don't know what medium are you working in, this is for oils, if it is watercolor, then you will have to save your lights first.

Hope it helps.
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Old 10-07-2003, 05:25 PM
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snakum snakum is offline
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Being new to painting, my working has changed alot as I learn more and more. Right now, however, here's what I intend to do when I start back ...

* Carefully measured contour sketch in charcoal (line only)

* Fix the charcoal thoroughly

* Scrub in all darks with turps; wipe out where required

* Glaze applied (if required) using a Canada Balsam/Stand Oil/Turps mixture; usually only for fabrics; I don't glaze often anymore

* Middle layers of opaque paint applied directly using Maroger medium, working dark to light

* Damar varnish after a couple months (I know ... I should wait longer)


Tres simple ... n'est ce pas?

Philippe
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Old 10-08-2003, 02:29 PM
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postalblue postalblue is offline
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thanks for the input, so far.
the thumbnail sounds like a good idea. i have thought of that but never got around to doing it.
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Old 10-08-2003, 03:39 PM
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CarolChretien CarolChretien is offline
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Everyone is so different in their approach.
mine is pretty simple.
and I DO use photographs as part of my references.
these next three examples show the intial step I use, then the beginning and the result.
(this is the first painting on canvas i actually took pics of each phase or MY method)
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Old 10-08-2003, 03:41 PM
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Step 2 adding color to my "drawing"
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Old 10-08-2003, 03:43 PM
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CarolChretien CarolChretien is offline
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When the layers dry I add mor color but some of it is wet work.
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Old 10-08-2003, 03:48 PM
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CarolChretien CarolChretien is offline
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the finished work...
(sorry not to put it all in one post...I don't know how to do that)
It tells how I got from a to z though.

I painted in the dog directly on the canvas.
I "draw" with paint. I have never enjoyed the detailed drawing on the canvas with pecil or charcoal. I have tried that in the past but just didn't feel happy with it. I'd rather get right into the paint and work all over the painting as it goes along.
When one area is drying I work on another etc.
It is only one way to paint.

but that is what I mean by everyone having a different way of going about painting.

hths
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Last edited by AutumnJoy : 10-08-2003 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 10-08-2003, 04:07 PM
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LarrySeiler LarrySeiler is offline
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my processes and step by steps can be seen on my demo page at my website-

http://www.artlandishconcepts.org/demo_page.htm

doing mostly alla prima plein air these days...
or using oil pochade sketches with references on site to build a larger work instudio.

Larry
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Old 10-08-2003, 05:07 PM
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autumnjoy,

thank you so much for taking the time to post this wip.
i've done paintings from loose sketches, and from detailed drawings, and i reached the conclusion that it's not worthwhile to do a very thorough rendering at the drawing stage if you're going to be covering it with mostly opaque paints. that's the way i see it, at least. i'd rather save the more detailed initial work for heavily glazed pieces.

larry,

i'm already familiar with your demos.
but thanks for posting the link.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:27 PM
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Re: direct vs. indirect painting

My methods have been changing as I grow. Currently I generally lay in mid tones with some wet in wet. Then use the indirect layering techniques, and finish up with opaque highlights and details. A sort of combination of both direct and indirect.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:01 PM
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Re: direct vs. indirect painting

I do mainly landscapes.

Sky first, clouds are wet on wet... can add more highlights later if you don't like them.

Then I do mountains or horizon stuff, gradually working forward and letting each layer dry...

Once an overall underpainting with values and base colors is in, I add highlights & detail later.

I'm still a beginner though, so my techniques will probably change a bit.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:38 PM
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Re: direct vs. indirect painting

Quote:
Originally Posted by postalblue
i'm interested in knowing how people usually tackle a new painting. do you usually paint alla prima, wet in wet or indirect?
what is your first instinct?

My "first instinct" would not be to paint in oils, directly or indirectly. My first instinct is having my eye "caught" by an interesting image, or portion of an image. It could be the way a cloud looks, or an odd juxtaposition of shapes in a group of buildings, or a photograph or painting glimpsed as I scan the Internet.

So, my "first instinct" would be as a sketch artist, or a photographer.

Painting, for me, is mostly about working against instinct!

This is when the "serious" work begins, the questioning whether this "glimpse" is "strong" enough to support being "frozen" in a static image that is intended to be looked at for an extended period of time; by viewers in a gallery, visitors to my website--or its owner over a period of many years.

Most of these "glimpses" are discarded--almost immediately. Some of them make their way into a sketch, or my (written) journal. There, they are almost always re-worked, added to other sketches or ideas, and developed (often much) "further".

I know that the "vogue" among many painters today is en plein aire and alla prima--though I also know that most of the "best" living painters I enjoy (Gottfried Helnwein, Dino Valls, James Jean, Chris Berens, Richard Phillips, Julie Heffernen, Michael Hussar, Ron English, Madeline von Forster, Peter Van Oostzanen, Michael Whelan, Mark Ryden, Lisa Yuskavage, David Michael Bowers, Jeff Koon's studio, Takashi Murakami studio, Jeremy Geddes, Nicola Verlato, Neo Rauch, Joe Sorren, Kehinde Wiley, and lots more) do not paint alla prima--let alone en plein aire.

They paint indrectly, to at least a significant degree.

Because my paintings are composites (amalgams of often several dozen imagined and/or found images, carefully compiled to appear as a single, coherent image) painting alla prima is impossible for me. Alla prima seems to "work" best when one's subject is visible, immediate, all at once.

To paint a single image from several sources--imagination, found images, and life--seems to make some variant of indirect painting, essential; unavoidable.


Quote:
--in what order? is there anyone there who paints the foreground first?

I usually paint "the most important" part of the painting, first. This way, if I mess up, I have the least invested. If I paint the background, or non-essentials first, then mess up the subject, I'm tempted to try to "salvage" the mistake, because of what I've already invested in the painting.

But, the "most important" (some call it a "focal point") of the painting may not necessarily be the "foreground"...


Quote:
--what about painting all the middle values first, and then adding the strongest shadows and highlights?

This could be called an imprimatura, and it is a technique that I have used. Becuase I paint "object by object", a great deal of additional attention must be paid to adjusting values and colours between the various objects, after all the objects have been "rendered".

Quote:
if anyone would care to list their usual steps to completing a painting, i'd love to hear it.

Steps in my current paintings:
1 Concept

2 Composition

2A Accuracy and Details; Drawing; ("Cartoon")

3 Accurate Values

4 Accurate Colour

Most of the "work" takes place in Steps 2 and 2A.

Last edited by Keith Russell : 07-25-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:06 AM
sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is online now
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Re: direct vs. indirect painting

very good points and descriptions of others artistic processes!

btw, postalblue has had no wc activity since 2006, but it is still a good topic! .
very nice dalmation too, unfortunately carol has no activity either since 2006
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Last edited by sidbledsoe : 07-26-2012 at 12:10 AM.
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