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Old 12-30-2014, 08:14 PM
basalsa basalsa is offline
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transparent split primaries?

Hi folks! I'm looking for the transparent colors to replace or have them beside with my current split palette but it seems most cadmiums are opaque. I found this table but I don't have any chance to try them all . The yellows I use are cad yellow pale hue and cad lemon hue. Is there a close transparent color or hue version?
For reds, again cad red deep hue on my palette is opaque also cad red hue (this one I use for mixing nice oranges with yellow pale) but alizarin crimson is ok. For blues both french ultramarine and Phthalo blue I'm using are good.
Btw I tried and found no use for chrome yellow hue what do you think of it?
Thanks a lot
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Old 12-30-2014, 09:09 PM
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yellow_oxide yellow_oxide is offline
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Re: transparent split primaries?

The link you provided doesn't work for me. Paints have pigment numbers from the color index on them, which you can see listed on this site- link

You may already know, but paint is made from a combination of dry powdered pigment, which can be all sorts of different materials and is what provides the color, and a liquid binder such as oil, gum arabic, acrylic emulsion, etc. The same pigments are often used for different paint media. It's the binder used that determines whether it'll be oil paint, watercolor, etc.

Because different brands give different marketing names to paints made with the same pigments, it's very useful to know about pigment numbers. For example, the ultramarine you use is PB29 (i.e. pigment blue 29). Phthalo blue is PB15, and so on. One brand's phthalo blue is another brand's Winsor blue, and one brand's scarlet lake is another brand's permanent red medium.

A paint maker may sometimes use a different pigment or mix of pigments as a substitute for another one, for various reasons including cost and toxicity. In these cases the paint will often, but not always, have the word "hue" at the end of the name. This indicates a paint that is not what that name would typically be used for. For example, genuine cadmium red is PR108. A "cadmium red hue" could be any red pigment or mix of pigments that imitates the real cadmium red.

In other words, without knowing what brand you're using and the pigment numbers for those particular paints, we have no way of knowing what your cadmium yellow and red hues are actually made from. It is very unlikely that they actually contain any cadmium.


Are you using student grade paint? For cost reasons, some pigments that I could suggest may not be available in student grade paint, and there's no brand that carries all pigments.
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Last edited by yellow_oxide : 12-30-2014 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 12-30-2014, 10:11 PM
basalsa basalsa is offline
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Re: transparent split primaries?

thankyou for the info.
my bad, sorry maybe this link works.
yes as you said most of the names mentioned are from student grade paints, Winton series.
and pigments as follow:
cad yellow pale hue: PY74
lemon yellow hue: PY73, PW6
cad red deep hue: PR170, PO36
cad red hue: PR188, PW6, PR112
in Maimeri / classico brand I have a semi transparent tube of yellow named "primary yellow" and the pigments are PY97 PY175 but its a bit cooler than pale. so I wonder if theres any transparent tubes close to those colors which I have worked with until now.
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Old 12-31-2014, 12:39 AM
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yellow_oxide yellow_oxide is offline
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Re: transparent split primaries?

I think a good number of the paint names in that list would be hard or impossible to find in student grade paints. For student grade I only have experience with Winton and Georgian, but I don't think you'll find one of the very transparent yellows except in artist grade. Not 100% sure on that. Semi transparent should be easier to find. I've read good things about Classico paint on this site, and it looks like it has a more diverse list of paints. There's even real cadmiums, but those are opaque.

PW6 is titanium white, and one of the most opaque pigments, so I would automatically assume any paint with that in its ingredient list (the cad red hue and lemon yellow hue) is opaque or semi opaque.

If you were to get a few artist grade tubes though, that would open some very nice possibilities like PY128 (cool, called something like transparent yellow by both Winsor & Newton (costs more) and Rembrandt (costs less)) and PY83 (warm, more so than your cad yel pale hue, and called Indian yellow by some brands, but not all Indian yellows are PR83) for yellow, both of which are very transparent. For red, a permanent alizarin crimson made from PR177 (probably what you have) is preferable over genuine alizarin crimson (PR83), which isn't as lightfast. I think a mix of that Indian yellow with the perm crimson makes a perfect enough warm red that you wouldn't even need a separate paint for that. So, basically, artist grade for two yellows and student grade for the rest would make a good spit primary palette...
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Old 12-31-2014, 03:25 AM
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Re: transparent split primaries?

Cadmiums are very opaque, Cadmiums HUE are designed to have original cadmiums opacity. Therefore, to have transparent colors, don't try Cadmium HUE, just try pigments with their own names.
In Maimeri Classico: Quinacridone Red PR209 is very transparent and vivid red, useful for both - violet and orange color mixing. Permanent Red Orange is transparent PO43 perinone orange pigment; Permanent Violet Blueish is perfect Dioxazine PV23; Primary Blue Cyan PB16+PB15:3 is bright primary blue;
Indian Yellow PY97+PO43 is vivid, transparent yellow-orange paint. Green Lake is transparent green PY97+PB15:3+PG7; Brown Stil de Grain is transparent brown PG7+PR146. Permanent Madder Deep is transparent madder lake imitation based on Quinacridone PR206. The advantage of Maimeri Classico is perfect linseed oil binder. Available in 20 ml and 60 ml tubes. Their synthetic organic paints are my favorite

BTW, PY83 Diarylide Yellow paint is not available in Classico, but Maqimeri olio HD has it. It is also in linseed oil binder, transparent and fluid. Disadvantage is, that I don't like Maimeri olio HD plastic tubes Plastic just bother me.

Last edited by Gigalot : 12-31-2014 at 04:06 AM.
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Old 12-31-2014, 02:30 PM
basalsa basalsa is offline
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Re: transparent split primaries?

Thank you all, lots of good info . So I assume I have to reconsider yellows and reds for glazing with pigments you listed.
Again thanks a lot.
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