Palette Puzzle

ArcticRose · #1 09-22-2003, 02:13 AM

How long did it take you to find your palette colors? I noticed many people have a "set" palette and only on occasion throw in a new color or two. I guess I'm just wondering how long on average it takes most people to find their colors.
I'm still searching and haven't found the combination that really speaks to me.
Also, I assume that whether someone finds a palette that works for them or not, they eventually start to move to towards a new color palette..whether it be experimentation, change in mood, personal or artistic growth,ect...

What are your thought on this?

Thank you!

lyn lynch · #2 09-22-2003, 02:24 AM

I think this is an excellent topic and am interested to see the responses.

Initially, I bought all the paints based on the lovely manufactuer names. Once I saw that nothing was working, I started reading about color theory.

Then, I took a few classes with a local figurist and used the colors he used--which didn't work for me due to the fact that I am still learning 'control' of the medium--he uses the Cads and stainers and gets fantastic results, but then he is a pro.

So, I went back to studying color theory. Made many different color wheels based on variances of all the colors I had. Made color studys of faces using different combinations of skin tones, i.e., yellow, cad orange, reds to see what would work together. Based on this, I made a limited palette for myself and banished 75% of the color I had purchased to a top shelf basket, where they remain today. Ultimately, felt this wasn't working, either.

Back to color theory. Learned about different paint manufacturers. Bought a sample of one manufacturer's paint--LOVED it. Back in color theory made notes of colors I thought would work for painting figures, which is all I do.

Purchased the limited colors that through color theory I learned would work together. Made a color wheel from them. Made color combination charts from them.

And, that's how I got my palette. Will I change it? Not in the foreseeable future as it works for me--I like it.

laudesan · #3 09-22-2003, 03:07 AM

I am still learning what colours work for me, but I too recently changed my brand of paint, and am now just trying to put together my own colour wheel and things. I have only been Painting WC since May, so it is very much trial and error. I love what I have so far, and am really enjoying finding out what colour combinations work for me. I have no intention of changing my brand again in the new futue either.
I am trying so hard to learn Colour Theory, it is surely very technical, but slowly but surely, I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
It all boils join to reading. reading, and more reading on Colour Theory!!

JJ

madmum · #4 09-22-2003, 03:32 AM

Palette is such a personal thing! But every book, every instructor has a recommended palette. I learned early on that there was no way I could buy every colour that the books advised, so I adapted and used what I had. I joined WC and heard about Handprint.com and found the information about pigments was exactly what I needed to make informed decisions.

I threw away the cadmiums (opaque), and the prussian blue and alizarin crimson (fugitive) and replaced them with transparent and permanent alternatives.

Now, after nearly a year of real experimentation and research, I love my palette! I can't imagine changing it unless I have to, as it does everything I need and all in 12 colours!

Ruth

**Ceiliog** · #5 09-22-2003, 05:21 AM

I use Daler Rowney paints - simply because they were giving them away for free, so that decision made I needed to decide which paints to get.

Blues I went for
Ultramarine - the most versatile blue so seemed a good choice
Cobalt - lots of people use this as an alternative to the above - I dont like it - not powerfull enough to get dark values
Prussian - got a tube of this that I rarely use
Manganese and Ceroleum - had 1 tube of each because they were free - not really found any use for either.
Indigo - a usefull strong dark blue - mixes well and is great for storms
Paynes Grey - horrible on its own, a nice mixer.

Ultramarine is always in my pallette, Indigo I use as well - the others I find totally surplus to Requirements

Yellows
I again got a selection of them.
Cadmium yellow - discarded this one almost immediately simply because it is opaque
Indian Yellow - very warm yellow this one
Lemon Yellow is as cold as Indian is warm
Aureleon - this is a nice mid range yellow.
Naples Yellow - an odd one this - doesnt mix particularly well - but is great at warming areas up.

Normally I have Aureleon on my pallette - but will sometimes replace it with Lemon or Indian (I only have 1 out of the three)
Naples is in a lot of my skies

I suppose Raw Sienna would qualify as a yellow? this is also often on my pallette.

Reds
Looking at bright reds - I replaced Cadmium with Quinacridone Red. - not often used.
For browny reds I have started replacing burnt sienna with transparent red brown, which just shades it - but I find these 2 fairly interchangeable.
Burnt Umber is in my box but rarely gets onto my pallette

Greens - I dont generally use these - but I do have a tube of Phthalo knocking around somewhere

My pallette is now pretty much refined down to....
Ultramarine
Aureleon
Transparent Red Brown
Naples Yellow
Raw Sienna

At its most limited I find that using the brown and blue above can make a nice versatile range

I will replace a colour with something from the lists I made above, most ussually the yellows get switched to warm or cool the overall picture.

Pete

Kate Mc · #6 09-22-2003, 05:45 AM

Great question, Anita.

I love to play with colors. Whenever I buy a new one (all too often, sigh....

) I get out all of the others and make a sheet showing how it mixes with them. I have been doing this for literally YEARS.

By doing this, I learned how to mix colors, and how to make or avoid mud, depending on what I want to do. I also learned about granulating/non-granulating colors, staining/non staining colors, transparent/opaque colors, warm/cool colors, etc. It's a great exercise and I recommend it to anyone.

When it comes to painting, however, I have really stripped down my palette. In most paintings I only use a few colors. Normally: Carmine (my alizarin replacement), FUB, New Gamboge and maybe Burnt Sienna. If I need a warm red, I use Winsor or Cad red (really diluted to make it more or less transparent). I also use Manganese blue because I love the granulation. with these colors I can mix almost any other one that I need.

If I want to do underpainting, I use Winsor violet, and if I'm doing landscapes, I sometimes use Raw Umber because it makes a nice green, but that's about all I really use.......unless I want to play.

Like Fookie, I'll be interested in what others have to say.

Kate

**Olga** · #7 09-22-2003, 06:41 AM

Good thing to reflect on.

When I started painting a year and a half ago or so, I read handprint and chose (too many) colors to buy trying to follow what he said. BUT--there is a fundamental contradiction there and in many books that say more or less: "buy a few colors to begin with and then you'll see what you like." Well., to my mind--to see what you like or dislike, you have to know what the options are... and for that you need try many colors. So, I bought too many and many I do not use anymore (e.g., cadmiums, raw and burnt umber, Payne's grey, Winsor blues...and I am too embarrassed to say how many others

)
I made charts and wheels and mixes...it was fun, but I can't say I use them much now (maybe I should).
I then read Jeanne Dobie's book... and thought I'd follow her palette because it sounded so well-thought out and appealing... but I did not care for some of her choices and I never got some because I knew they were fugitive (e.g., rose madder).
After that, I came here and read what people were saying... and started trying out some other colors--e.g., I tried quin colors because Pam raved about them and added quin gold; switched to Scarlet lake and Carmine as reds because of something Fookie said.

I am still experimenting, but I change MUCH less often now. There are colors on my palette which, for one reason or another, I just stop using... and eventually, not refill.

What I now:
FUB
Cerulean (manganese when I had it, but I am out and not sure where to get it)
Antwerp or Indanthrene Blue (sometimes)

Sap Green
Viridian (sometimes, for mixing)
(and sometimes Winsor Green to mix for black)

lemon yellow (sometimes aureolin)
new gamboge
quin gold

scarlet lake
carmine (or sometimes permanent alizarin crimson)
perm rose

burnt siena
winsor purple

I do think in terms of cool/warm of any color and try to mix keeping that in mind.
Transparency matters--but for some stuff (rarely), I like the more opaque colors. Staining/nonstaining is also important--I kind of know what's what by now, but should think more about it before I put brush to paper.
So, I think a lot of what one learns by trial and error is hard to spell out.. but I know I still have lots to learn about this.
Oh yes--so far (except for one tube of manganese) I've only been using Winsor&Newton. Got some free tubes of Daler-Rowney, but the two I opened just to try (FU violet and Hooker's green seemed kind of milky compared to W&N...)
Sorry for the loooong response--it's because I am supposed to be working

Olga

Maffet · #8 09-22-2003, 07:48 AM

This is a lovely thread. I like to see how people built their own palletes and how they search for their right colors. Pallete is really very personal thing and from time to time it changes as person is going through diffrent parts of life or situations and moods.
I liked how Pete detaily descrabed color, which use. I love also indigo. What a great color. I just curently do some picture with stromy sky and that was exactly that color I needed. It's also good for shadows.

I am just building my own pallete so I have many colors which I dont use and some which boxes are nearly empty, because I use them a lot. But I paint in three diffrent styles and for each I have diffrent color chart.

I use all classical browns and yellows -
burn and natural sienna and umbra, red, gold and natural ocre, some yellow, orange cadmiums, permanet red and Neapol yellow. I also like Rome sepia which is close to Van dick brown but not so heavy. Most often used brown is Van dick. I learnt to dont use black color, so I mix it from this color, sometimes add craplack and indigo to create dark natural color.

From cold colors.
viridian, czech earth green (something like olive), cobalt green light, cobalt turqoise, coelin blue, dark blue cobalt, indigo, parisien blue and both violet cobalts. Now I have a payne gray.

I had very limited pallete, but as my obsession for watercolors is growing I still try something new and buy new colors. May be I will finaly dislike the color, but I need to try at first, test how it is going with other color, take a test sheet and mix it. Sometimes I has some color which I dont use too much, but they wait for their moment of fame, when I need them for example for some shadow or lumine effect :-) But who knows what I will say after year of using my current set.

bswilson1147 · #9 09-22-2003, 08:08 AM

It took me 3 or 4 years to settle on my palette colors. I still change my favorites -- especially greens and yellows, for some reason.

chocHollyK · #10 09-22-2003, 09:27 AM

What a wonderful thread!!!!!

I will share briefly, because I am still so very much in learning stages... but....
When I first dived into wcolor, took two lessons locally... she provided me with eight (8) colors, Holbein (Holbein provides her with many, many supplies for various reasons).... my local discount art store sells only Holbein & W/N in the artist grades...
I stick with the Holbein BECAUSE also was provided with tech chart by wcolor instructor... shows liftability, staining vs non-stain, opaque v transparent, and notes 'intense' colors.... chart does NOT, for obvious reasons, address whether colors are 'fugitive'... and it is so readily available in person (I open tubes to look at actual color before I buy - nice option)...
I know Handprint addresses these factors for other brands as well, but this is just easier for me, and at this stage, I need to stick with something clearly known to me and readily available...

I too make color charts, though not as religiously as some others here have noted... probably should get more disciplined about that....

That first palette that wcolor instructor provided included FOUR blues!!! I have since bought two additional ones, cerulean and indigo, and those two along with ultramarine deep are about the only ones I use now.... I DO love the Marine Blue that Holbein makes though.... Luscious!!!!

I have two questions though....
I have heard more than once that alizarin crimson is 'fugitive', but Holbein brand is "Permanent A.Crimson"... is it still fugitive??? very confused about that....
Also, someone said rose madder is also fugitive??? did not know that....
well, I have few other questions too, but I did say I'd be brief and have already violated that...

.....Holly

**pampe** · #11 09-22-2003, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ArcticRose
How long did it take you to find your palette colors? I noticed many people have a "set" palette and only on occasion throw in a new color or two. I guess I'm just wondering how long on average it takes most people to find their colors.
I'm still searching and haven't found the combination that really speaks to me.
Also, I assume that whether someone finds a palette that works for them or not, they eventually start to move to towards a new color palette..whether it be experimentation, change in mood, personal or artistic growth,ect...

What are your thought on this?

Thank you!

still working on it

and I imagine it will change all the time

can't imagine sticking to one set of colors forever

seedy · #12 09-22-2003, 10:49 AM

Anita...
Have you been to this site www.handprint.com

seedy · #13 09-22-2003, 10:53 AM

Got kicked out of that last reply...
The site shows artists and the pallettes they use with excellant observations by the writer...you will come away just as confused.
At least I did, but I did go with that "convenient green" theory which solved my problem...for now
Take care,
Brian

ArcticRose · #14 09-22-2003, 11:38 AM

I appreciate all the well thought out responses. I've printed out your replies so I can study this information. It really is a process isn't it? Another lesson in patience and understanding your medium.
Here we have a color theory channel on WC and I never really looked at it! Thanks for the reminder Fookie and JJ.

Brian you're right...I have read handprint.com and I did come out more confused. It's an excellent site loaded with information. I've found when I know what I'm looking for on that site it's invaluable.
I'm highlighting everyone's good points so I can get back to you on all this information.

It's obviously a longer process for most than I thought. That, for me, is very encouraging.

ArcticRose · #15 09-22-2003, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chocHollyK
I have two questions though....
I have heard more than once that alizarin crimson is 'fugitive', but Holbein brand is "Permanent A.Crimson"... is it still fugitive??? very confused about that....
Also, someone said rose madder is also fugitive??? did not know that....

.....Holly

I've heard similar things about those colors too. Does anyone know? I was told that some of them that are now renamed "permanent" are still fugitive.

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