WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > Explore Media > Scratchboard Art
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2013, 12:29 AM
Crias's Avatar
Crias Crias is offline
A Local Legend
Colorado
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,920
 
Hails from United States
Discussion on Varnishes

Here is what I know from talking to people or my own trial and error Please feel free to add your own prefered brands and experiences good/bad with different types of varnishes. Please include the brand and specific type of varnish used.

ALL Spray on varnishes should be used in LOW humidity and in an area that is at least 60 degrees Fahrenheit. Follow the instructions carefully on all bottles regarding how long to shake it and ideal spraying conditions, how long between layers of spray, etc.

Kryon - problems with uneven finish (some areas stay shinier than others if one area gets more varnish), especially on large boards. If you spray it on too heavy you can get cloudy areas. Various 'types' are not compatible (I sprayed one little area with matte over satin and it particulated. It was only one corner and I sanded it off and it was fine with additional coats of satin. I use the artist series archival satin mostly. Lorna uses the kamar sometimes and for me it is too glossy and too much static! I find it gets dusty and my dog's hair stuck to it with a static cling type of feel.

Minwax which Charlie recommended and uses - some concerns about it yellowing over time due to its chemical composition. Allan got a bad batch and turned his entire work bright yellow! Two different cans, two different works, but both the same batch of product. Lorna used it on some boards without an issue. I used it on one or two boards without issue. Not UV resistant.

Golden - I've not heard of any problems except splattering. Difficult to get in the USA. Leaves a bit of texture to the board. I only used one can, but I liked it.

Lascaux - Leaves a nice finish to the work, but with four cans I could never get more than one use out of them due to big problems with splattering on subsequent uses even when I spayed out the nozzle after the first use. At $27+ per bottle this was ridiculous, as I usually don't have enough boards to varnish at one sitting to use up a whole can. On a plus it does seem to dry more even than krylon. I have not tried buying the bulk and airbrushing it, but this is likely the best method of application.

Ampersand varnish - no longer made! If you can find some bottles they have been sitting on a shelf for at least 5+ years. When it was available it was a nice matte finish with the BEST spray nozzle out there. Very few problems with splatter when it sprayed. I found some bottles a while ago at a store, but despite shaking for a very long time and using in ideal conditions the bottles were spraying white particulates. I assume there was some chemical breakdown from sitting on the shelf for so long. I tossed about 4 cans in the trash after trying them on a sample board.

What else are people using?

And the moral of the story is that varnishing sucks!! No matter what product you use if you talk to enough people or use it long enough it seems like there are problems, from particulation, cloudyness, uneven finish, major splatters! What we are working with is mega-chemicals! They don't always get mixed the same in the warehouse, stored the same, or respond to climate the way we want them to unfortunately. I've pretty much just come to accept that there is not a perfect varnish and I cross my fingers and send up a little prayer every single time!
__________________
Cathy Sheeter


Check out the new International Society of Scratchboard Artists!

Last edited by Crias : 07-28-2013 at 11:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2013, 01:37 AM
PaintDog's Avatar
PaintDog PaintDog is offline
WC! Guide
Northern California
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,655
 
Hails from United States
Re: Discussion on Varnishes

I've used the Lascaux and have been very happy with it. As we all seem to know, spraying is a "fingers crossed" experience, but the Lascaux has been very consistent for me. I like their "semi-matte" finish, but they also make a matte and a gloss.

Not everyone carries it and the best price I could find was around $30. I've purchased from Cheap Joe's and Jerry's Artarama. Pricey, yeah, yikes! But it's worked for me, so I'll keep using it. It also smells pretty bad - like extra-strong nail polish. Definitely need to use with plenty of ventilation!!

I went through 4 cans for the 15 5 x 7 boards of one series, plus a diptych (2 8 x 8 boards) and a couple of 3 x 5 boards. I quit using each can as it seemed to be getting close to empty. I hate to waste any of a $30 can of spray, but I don't want to risk screwing up a board with the "dregs" of a can. I'll use the dregs on some backing boards.

Ideally, I'd spray each board 4 times, letting it dry and then rotating between coats. The nozzle puts out a nice spray that went on evenly as long as I was careful to keep the can moving. It does a nice job of smoothing things out and hiding smudges, scuffs, eraser marks and shiny pen marks.

I had issues in getting specks of dust stuck after spraying, but that seems to be a hazard that we've all dealt with. On a couple of boards, I used a black Pitt pen on the specks, but after the coat of spray over that dried/cured, there was a dull spot where I touched up the specks.

So for more boards than I would have liked, I had to hit the background with a bit of steel wool, then diluted Ampersand repair ink, then back to spraying - some boards ended up with 5 - 6 coats for this reason. In a few cases, I still had specks making me crazy, so after the steel wool and repair ink, I took a Pitt black pen and "scribbled" on the background to create a black on black pattern that disrupted it enough to camouflage the specks. One more layer of spray went on that. The pattern is visible in the right light, but it almost looks intentional
____________________

Every can of Krylon I've tried has spit and left some larger blobs, but those seem to even out with the next layer. Still, it's too risky and I'll stick with the Lascaux.

The only other spray I've used is the old Ampersand stuff and, as Cathy said, it worked great.

I haven't tried the Golden yet. I have a can of Minwax, but now I'm afraid to even try it. Maybe on something that has color and not a lot of white, it would be ok.
__________________
Ann

Web Site - Pet Portraits - Facebook

Last edited by PaintDog : 07-28-2013 at 01:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2013, 11:28 AM
Crias's Avatar
Crias Crias is offline
A Local Legend
Colorado
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,920
 
Hails from United States
Re: Discussion on Varnishes

Regarding my process - generally 4 coats rotating 90 degrees between each layer. I spray my work upright, never flat as it reduces splattering this way. On my final layer I use a bit of a circular motion from about 18 inches away (other 3 layers are lines top to bottom from about 12 inches). The circular spray helps to break up the unnatural pattern that line spraying can create. Rich C. Clued me in on this and I have been doing it this way ever since.

For large works going behind glass if I have an even finish after 2 or 3 coats I stop there! Getting an even finish on very large boards is indeed a challenge and since I know the glass will protect it if I have a good even finish with less varnish I stop while I am ahead!

An interesting note that I bought a bottle of Krylon Retouch Varnish for my oil paintings last year and it had the same nozzle that ampersand used to use, which puts a fine mist, wider spray, less splatter. I am HOPING they may move to this spray nozzle for all of their varnishes, but haven't seen it on the others yet.
__________________
Cathy Sheeter


Check out the new International Society of Scratchboard Artists!

Last edited by Crias : 07-28-2013 at 11:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2013, 04:14 PM
Desert Fox's Avatar
Desert Fox Desert Fox is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 294
 
Re: Discussion on Varnishes

Thanks for the indepth response Cathy. Can you switch the nozzles, if one is better?
Ann, I found in searching a company called Talasonline.com. They charge $23.50 and no shipping. I looked at reviews for them but haven't used them yet so proceed cautiously.
John
__________________
John, Active Member of ISSA
My Philosophy is always share your knowledge or art form. " The Water Floats All the Boats."
http://johnpeehl.weebly.com
Reply With Quote
  #5   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2013, 05:29 PM
Desert Fox's Avatar
Desert Fox Desert Fox is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 294
 
Re: Discussion on Varnishes

Cathy do you wait between coats? Thanks for your help.
John
__________________
John, Active Member of ISSA
My Philosophy is always share your knowledge or art form. " The Water Floats All the Boats."
http://johnpeehl.weebly.com
Reply With Quote
  #6   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2013, 08:00 PM
MJGresko's Avatar
MJGresko MJGresko is offline
Enthusiast
Pennsylvania
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,622
 
Hails from United States
Re: Discussion on Varnishes

I've all but given up on spraying. Ideally around here spring and fall are probably the best times to spray because the humidity is lower and the temp is right. If I ever get back to scratching I'm thinking about taking them to a bodyshop and paying them to clearcoat them. Of course they'd be really shiny then and I actually prefer the satin finish. But I've had TOO many problems when I spray that it has turned me off from doing anything.
__________________
Marcia
Ooh baby it's a big old goofy world....John Prine
Reply With Quote
  #7   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2013, 09:33 PM
Crias's Avatar
Crias Crias is offline
A Local Legend
Colorado
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,920
 
Hails from United States
Re: Discussion on Varnishes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Fox
Cathy do you wait between coats? Thanks for your help.
John

Unfortunately no . One has an inny and the other an outy

The bottle of Krylon says you do not need to wait between coats. Since I work in light layers I have, at times, not waited and just rotated while it is wet. Have to be careful not to touch the board though! Other times I have waited until it appears dry. I have not had any problem spraying wet on wet, but would make sure you are working with only light layers to avoid risk of cloudiness.
__________________
Cathy Sheeter


Check out the new International Society of Scratchboard Artists!
Reply With Quote
  #8   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-31-2013, 02:16 PM
Shirl's Avatar
Shirl Shirl is offline
Enthusiast
N. Calif
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,440
 
Hails from United States
Re: Discussion on Varnishes

Totally agree with Cathy on the Krylon. Since Ampersand recommended it and I happen to have it, I used it (matte finish) on a recently completed 11x14. After 4 coats, I could not get an even coverage. Thought it was me, since I had never sprayed a black surface like this. But I just went over it with one coat of Blair matte finish and it was corrected very nicely.

I bought a scratchboard from a friend who used the Golden brand and it has a perfect-looking glossy surface.

I've had horrible experiences w/fixatives on my colored pencil artwork too, sometimes taking colors right off the surface. Now I just want to close my eyes and pray before spraying!
__________________
Shirl
God created man....then He had a better idea.
Reply With Quote
  #9   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-01-2013, 01:04 PM
Pantherinae's Avatar
Pantherinae Pantherinae is offline
Veteran Member
Pennsylvania, USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 612
 
Hails from United States
Re: Discussion on Varnishes

I've been using the Krylon's gallery series in matte finish. I was having trouble with spotting and an orange peel appearance with everything else I have tried, but the gallery series give me a perfect finish every time.
__________________
Amy Stauffer, SSA

My Blog - Wildlife in Oil & Scratchboard
My Facebook
Reply With Quote
  #10   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-21-2013, 05:38 PM
LJW61's Avatar
LJW61 LJW61 is offline
Senior Member
Rural Buckinghamshire,olde Englande
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 116
 
Hails from England
Re: Discussion on Varnishes

Ive given up on the aerosols, I now use acrylic matt varnish applied by airbrush/small spraygun, no spits, no runs & as cheap as chips!
Reply With Quote
  #11   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-27-2013, 08:01 PM
Hoofnpaw's Avatar
Hoofnpaw Hoofnpaw is offline
Lord of the Arts
The Oregon outback....
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,733
 
Hails from United States
Re: Discussion on Varnishes

I have used only the Krylon Matte--without issue. BUT, that being said, as you know Eastern Oregon is very dry. I always wait until it is at least 70 degrees and work in light layers, in different directions, waiting for each layer to dry before going to the next. I would really like to find something I could use for the OTHER 80% of the year, when we are below 70 degrees. Going to experiment with possibly Modge Podge or Minwax on scrap boards this winter.

Sean
__________________
It is not what you look at that matters, it is what you see. --Henry David Thoreau
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:56 PM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.