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Old 03-08-2013, 03:14 PM
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Aderynglas Aderynglas is offline
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Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

I decided to make a chart of W&N colours and their pigments today and got a nasty surprise.

Their New Gamboge now is made from PY150,PR209 instead of PY153 - as is their Indian Yellow

Luckily I have quite a bit of it left, but I will now have to find another source as using a mix of colours is just going to lead to mud .


Just goes to show, reading the labels is as important when buying paint as it is when buying food ...
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:01 PM
M.L. Schaefer M.L. Schaefer is offline
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

W/N New Gamboge, one of my all time favorite mixing colors. I do have some left in the tube as well....but Members definitely need to exchange notes on replacement mixing colors, because I KNOW we are not the only ones that are flabbergasted! WHY would they do that!!!!????

I have some Da Vinci Hansa Yellow Deep (a transparent PY65) I love it for mixing, but it absolutely does not compare to New Gamboge, and will also be looking for a replacement color...I guess look through the charts and see what other PY153s are available! I am so shocked! I mean, I use it for making olives, all kinds of greens.....WHAT ARE THEY THINKING

Margarete
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:11 PM
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virgil carter virgil carter is offline
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

A wrote, "...using a mix of colours is just going to lead to mud..."

Well, not necessarily. It all depends on what it's mixed with, how its mixed and applied (in the palette, on the paper, glazes, etc.) and whether or not it's fussed with once applied or left alone to mix, mingle and dry by itself.

Of course, there's an old saying that may still be useful: "if one can get the desired effect with two paints, do so". It can be risky using multiple paints (with multiple pigments).

Then again, many if not most watercolor applications can be corrected if it's done while the paint is fresh and wet. Once dried, corrections may be challenging.

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Old 03-08-2013, 04:14 PM
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

Yes,I ordered New Gamboge from DS on the last order.It is still PY153 on it's own
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:45 PM
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Marcio C Marcio C is offline
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishman
Yes,I ordered New Gamboge from DS on the last order.It is still PY153 on it's own
I like the New Gamboge from Daniel Smith, PY153
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:56 PM
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charliez charliez is offline
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

A few years ago M Graham changed Gamboge from PY110 to PY151/PO62. Obviously it is an orange gamboge. Indian yellow is still made with PY110.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:37 PM
M.L. Schaefer M.L. Schaefer is offline
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

Thank you, Larry, Carlos, Marcio! I guess D/S is going to have a huge spike in sales of New Gamboge.

Ah, Virgil, imagine if you will, one of your favorite colors (which hardly anyone makes) will no longer be available! Crisis time! Me, I'm a bit hardheaded, I would rather buy D/S than "see" if the Winsor Newton mix is the same. Maybe if someone sent me a dot, I may change my mind...but the PY53 has a look and glow all its own.

Margarete
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:04 PM
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Aderynglas Aderynglas is offline
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

Thing is, a mixture is unlikely to handle in mixes exactly like the original single pigment paint. And I don't want to get caught out having to relearn how a paint handles.

This has implications for professional artists with deadlines, imagine you have a very intricate and accurate painting to complete, you agree a deadline and then discover that the paints you normally use aren't performing as they should, you have to start again, you have to locate new paints if the ones you have aren't of any use, you then have the possibility of losing the deadline and your credibility as an artist who can deliver on time. In commercial settings delivering on time and to the standard expected is crucial. It's the difference between being in work or on welfare.

PS. Sennelier Aqurelle has PY153 as Sennelier Yellow Light. This colour used to be PY154?? I have a sample that hasn't been tried, if it's the same hue I'll buy that, I prefer the Sennelier paints to W&N anyway. Their Indian Yellow is PY153,PY154

Last edited by Aderynglas : 03-08-2013 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:36 PM
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CharM CharM is offline
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

I don't know why M. Graham changed their gamboge from a lightfast single pigment to their current mixture. And then, they re-introduced PY110 as Indian Yellow...

With W&N's new mixture, it's important to understand the colour bias of each of the pigments. PY150 is a lightfast orange biased yellow while PR209 is an orange biased synthetic red. Mixing with other colours will probably not be a huge issue because both colours in the mix are considered "warm".

I do think that W&N's Gamboge was always a mixture, however, of PY153+PO62 (a slightly opaque orange)... Perhaps they decided that a more transparent hue was the order of the day.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:57 PM
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Aderynglas Aderynglas is offline
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

The W&N New Gamboge that I have, bought last year, is PY153 a single pigment colour which though warm, is less warm in tints, it's a wonderful eggyolk yellow in masstone and quite lemony in tints and has a glow to it. I won't be buying the new mixture, I prefer to use single pigment paints, then I know what I'm getting when I mix my paints

I haven't checked yet, but I wonder how many other paints have been changed, with the new branding of the tubes?
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:00 PM
M.L. Schaefer M.L. Schaefer is offline
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

Polly, please let us know how the Sennelier compares...(is the new French brand, or the older brand Sennelier?)

Yes, I do have my notebook filled with W/N New Gamboge mixes....

Margarete
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:20 AM
sashntash sashntash is offline
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

On the Winsor & Newton website..... in their Artist's Watercolours Colour Chart... when I clicked on New Gamboge..... it said this:

"Pigment change: Reformulated due to pigment discontinuation, now closer to genuine Gamboge."

So... it appears that the change was not arbitrary, they changed it because they can no longer get the other pigment. If they can't, I would guess that the other manufacturers will also soon be running out.....

Thank you for mentioning the change. I use W&N New Gamboge and love it... I would have just re-ordered automatically without realizing there had been a change.

Also... you mentioned "new branding of the tubes" ..... Please explain... I don't know what that means ?????
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Last edited by sashntash : 03-09-2013 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:50 AM
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

For what it's worth Jackson's http://www.jacksonsart.com/ have their generic brand of watercolour on special 20% off and their Indian Yellow is PY153.
I cannot vouch for them as I have never purchased them before but have an order in now for 4 x 21mil tubes to experiment with. I have no idea as to where Jackson sources their watercolours from but honey is used in the formula.
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:25 PM
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

I see DS do a Permanent Yellow Deep PY110 and it sure looks nice !I got caught a few months ago when buying Schminke Indian Yellow,it is a two pigment job.But it could have been worse,their Gamboge Modern is three pigments !!!
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:51 PM
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Aderynglas Aderynglas is offline
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Re: Winsor&Newton Pigment change!

W&N Rebranding the Tubes watch the header video here


Tred, how do you know that Jackson's Watercolour Indian Yellow is PY153? I've got six of their paints and only found out what they contain when they arrived, where is the info on pigments please?
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