WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > Explore Media > Oil Painting
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-12-2012, 12:58 PM
crafor crafor is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,733
 
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

When I paint, I use walnut oil. I use it to clean the brushes between colors, and when I quit for the day. If I won't paint for a while, I wash brushes first with oil, then hard soap, then fragrance free shampoo. I don't want fragrance chemicals in my brushes.

Do not use soap and water, or just soap, while painting. Soap is for final clean-up, when done painting.
Ella
Reply With Quote
  #32   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-12-2012, 01:18 PM
Gigalot's Avatar
Gigalot Gigalot is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Tbilisi, Georgia
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,347
 
Hails from Georgia
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

Turpentine and solvents are modern innovations appeared after 18 century. Ancient painters always cleaned their brushes with oil and painted with oil or oil-resin mixtures or even egg-oil emulsion.

You need a tone of oiled rags when you want to make spontaneous combustion

Last edited by Gigalot : 09-12-2012 at 01:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #33   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-12-2012, 01:26 PM
sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is offline
WC! Guide
Maryland, USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,906
 
Hails from United States
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

I have no idea when it was that the first oil painter dipped his brush into some solvent but turpentine and petroleum distillates such as coal oil and kerosene have been used medicinally since ancient times.
Turpentine was a common medicine among seamen during the Age of Discovery, and one of several products carried aboard Ferdinand Magellan's fleet in his first circumnavigation of the globe. Turpentine oil is still used in Vicks Vapo Rub.

Last edited by sidbledsoe : 09-12-2012 at 01:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #34   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-12-2012, 01:32 PM
!becca's Avatar
!becca !becca is offline
WC! Guide
?????
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 46,522
 
Hails from United States
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

Quote:
You need a tone of oiled rags when you want to make spontaneous combustion
I know for a fact this is not true.

Sid, that info about solvents is informative...frankly I like my turp. Sorry for posting you in...seems we got here the same time.
__________________
Becca
“Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
Becca's Fine Art my blog

Last edited by !becca : 09-12-2012 at 01:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-12-2012, 01:55 PM
Hans35 Hans35 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 17
 
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

Quote:
Originally Posted by crafor
When I paint, I use walnut oil. I use it to clean the brushes between colors, and when I quit for the day. If I won't paint for a while, I wash brushes first with oil, then hard soap, then fragrance free shampoo. I don't want fragrance chemicals in my brushes.

Do not use soap and water, or just soap, while painting. Soap is for final clean-up, when done painting.
Ella

Ok thanks ) Now I just have to find out where to keep the rags.

So walnut oil with linseed oil is ok? lol

Last edited by Hans35 : 09-12-2012 at 01:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #36   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-12-2012, 02:29 PM
Gigalot's Avatar
Gigalot Gigalot is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Tbilisi, Georgia
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,347
 
Hails from Georgia
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

Becca is right, a few pound of rags can combust.

Slow drying oil like walnut oil is good for A-la-prima painting. For underpainting more useful oil is linseed oil. For regular painting linseed oil is also better, but walnut oil can make less yellowish film.
There are also an Alkyd medium but it is solvent (white spirit) based thing. Walnut alkyd is solvent free, but I newer try it. Ask Sid about it`s working properties.

Last edited by Gigalot : 09-12-2012 at 02:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-12-2012, 08:04 PM
!becca's Avatar
!becca !becca is offline
WC! Guide
?????
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 46,522
 
Hails from United States
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidbledsoe
I have no idea when it was that the first oil painter dipped his brush into some solvent but turpentine and petroleum distillates such as coal oil and kerosene have been used medicinally since ancient times.
Turpentine was a common medicine among seamen during the Age of Discovery, and one of several products carried aboard Ferdinand Magellan's fleet in his first circumnavigation of the globe. Turpentine oil is still used in Vicks Vapo Rub.

Maybe it is the turp in here and not my allergy meds that has been so effective for me.

It is pertinent that we keep all in perspective.
__________________
Becca
“Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
Becca's Fine Art my blog
Reply With Quote
  #38   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-12-2012, 09:52 PM
LNArtsy's Avatar
LNArtsy LNArtsy is offline
New Member
NC
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 35
 
Hails from United States
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

I'll weigh in late and say I just use oil paints, thinned with linseed oil as needed; and I wash up my brushes in plain dish soap and water. I've got brushes 20+ years old still looking great. The only "fumes" created are mild and to tell the truth, smell pretty good to me. I love the smell of oil paint -- it's just oil and pigment, really. Oh, and if I have to wash out a brush early (never happens, I just grab another brush) plain old oil can clean it good enough with a papertowel wipe before going to another color. I find oil paints so much safer than acrylics/alkyds, etc..
[edited to add that I live in a smallish home with a dog, a cat and 4 parrots -- we've never gotten sick]
__________________
"Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up." Pablo Picasso

Last edited by LNArtsy : 09-12-2012 at 09:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-12-2012, 09:58 PM
!becca's Avatar
!becca !becca is offline
WC! Guide
?????
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 46,522
 
Hails from United States
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

If the parrots have thrived, that is testimony.
__________________
Becca
“Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
Becca's Fine Art my blog
Reply With Quote
  #40   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-12-2012, 10:05 PM
LNArtsy's Avatar
LNArtsy LNArtsy is offline
New Member
NC
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 35
 
Hails from United States
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

I only have to replace a parrot every couple months or so. Nah. Seriously, I've had my parrots since the mid nineties -- my baby parrot is now 17! I am far more concerned about teflon in something (pots/pan/heaters) than I would ever be about oil paints. Turps, OMS and alkyds would probably kill them and make me sick too. Just wanted to reassure there is a safe way to oil paint.
__________________
"Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up." Pablo Picasso
Reply With Quote
  #41   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-12-2012, 10:14 PM
!becca's Avatar
!becca !becca is offline
WC! Guide
?????
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 46,522
 
Hails from United States
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

You are right, teflon is scary..so far my turps haven't effected my fish, Knight. Parrots are very long lived...
__________________
Becca
“Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
Becca's Fine Art my blog
Reply With Quote
  #42   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-13-2012, 08:39 AM
Yellow Ogre's Avatar
Yellow Ogre Yellow Ogre is offline
Senior Member
Kazakhstan
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 234
 
Hails from Kazakhstan
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carcharhinus
The conditions needed for the linseed to combust is an enclosed space that still has air flowing through it. What happens is that linseed oil creates a mild exothermic reaction when it oxidises. But if you have a pile of rags in an enclosed space then the heat created from this reaction can sometimes generate faster than it can dissipate and heat can become trapped in the middle of the pile. In very rare cases, mostly in hot and dry weather, the linseed can become hot enough to ignite the rags.

If you use a lot of linseed oil, then you should just be careful where you dispose of the rags. Just put them somewhere where they wont be able to start a fire. Outside in a bucket is fine, covered with water if you're really worried. One linseedy paper towel wont ignite because the surface area is enough that the heat can dissipate. You only really need to worry if you have a pile of paper towels or rags where a lot of linseed oil is going to be oxidising and if you live in a hot climate.


.

This brings back a vivid memory from 42 years ago in Houston Texas during the summer.

We had a oily rag self-combustion take place in our workshop attached to the house at 2 AM in the morning. Everyone in the bedroom was asleep but we all had scratchy throats and when my brother turned on the light, the room was filled with opaque white smoke. We ran around the house looking for the source and I went into the workshop. When I opened the door, there was a dim glow on a portable cart but the fresh air caused it to burst into flame. My father was a cool thinker and opened up the garage door and pushed it outside. Which was a good thing because the shop was filled with cans of paint solvents and dynagrip formica glue solvent (very flammable). The opague white smoke came from melting a shop vac attachment. Otherwise, we would have been toast. The oily rags were from sealing a stone floor around 3 in the afternoon. So it took around 11 hours.

I had forgotten all about the dangers of oily rags...thanks for the reminder of the hazards of oil rags.
__________________
Its not "Yellow Ogre", it's "Yellow O C H R E".
"I am not evil. I only paint that way".
Reply With Quote
  #43   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-13-2012, 08:43 AM
Yellow Ogre's Avatar
Yellow Ogre Yellow Ogre is offline
Senior Member
Kazakhstan
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 234
 
Hails from Kazakhstan
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

I am thinking that "odorless" solvents have very careful manufacturing techniques (distillation) to remove all the voltile light ends so the inhalation hazard is less than with conventional solvents. So there is less bad stuff in the air - at least afar as my nose can tell.

Then I also remember Bob Ross died from lymphoma - visions of him whacking that brush on the side of the easel after he dipped it in solvent.
__________________
Its not "Yellow Ogre", it's "Yellow O C H R E".
"I am not evil. I only paint that way".
Reply With Quote
  #44   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-13-2012, 12:04 PM
libby2's Avatar
libby2 libby2 is offline
Veteran Member
Upstate NY
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 836
 
Hails from United States
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

Yeah terps & mineral spirits go up really fast. I remember my ex-fil shaking out a match after lighting his cigar and dropping it on the floor (this was in '76 when folks smoked everywhere), a can of solvent was by his feet, the match wasn't out like he thought, and it caught fire. Didn't explode, just the fumes lit up and went up his leg, and up the work bench. Took about two seconds for that entire section of the shop to be in flames. We shoved him out the door into the snow and someone grabbed an extinguisher. Just amazes me how fast it went, the motion of his hand shaking out the match caught my eye and I got to see the whole thing. He was OK, had 3rd degree burns on part of his leg, but otherwise OK.

As far as OMS goes, Gamsol is the safest, they take the most nasties out of all.
__________________
_______
Libby my blog

Last edited by libby2 : 09-13-2012 at 12:05 PM. Reason: clarity
Reply With Quote
  #45   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-13-2012, 12:14 PM
crafor crafor is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,733
 
Re: Fast question on how to clean brushes / turpentine

And for the very reasons you cite: "...there is less bad stuff in the air - at least as far as my nose can tell..." you need to be more aware of what you're inhaling:
odorles mineral spirits:
http://www.saylesschool.org/MSDS/Ode...%20Spirits.pdf
http://www.noco.com/noco-msds-odorless-mineral-spirits
lists Naphtha (Petroleum), Heavy Alkylate10064742-48-9


(Mixture of Petroleum Hydrocarbons, mainly IsoparrafinsNaptha (petroleum), heavy alkylate as the ingredient.Naphtha (Petroleum), Heavy Alkylate10064742-48-9


(Mixture of Petroleum Hydrocarbons, mainly Isoparrafins
several sections lower, health hazard info
Exposure Limit for Vapor Mixture192 ppm (1200) mg/m3) total hydrocarbons recommended. (8 hour TWA)
Routes of Entry
Skin ContactVery low order of toxicity by skin absorption. However, frequent or prolonged contact may irritate the skin and cause dermatitis.EyeSlightly irritating but does not injure eye tissue.InhalationThe vapors have a low to moderate toxicity. In high concentrations the vapors are irritating and anaesthetic. The irritating properties give warning as anaesthetic concentrations are approached.IngestionLow order of toxicity. However, minute amounts aspirated into the lungs during swallowing or subsequent vomiting may cause severe lung irritation.

Gamsol: http://www.gamblincolors.com/msds/MSDS_Gamsol.pdf
Naptha(Petroleum), Hydrotreated heavy

Among the 3, Gamsol's write-up seems to attachlittle importance to the health hazards,
one msds does not tell the ingredients, and those two put more emphasis on health hazards, just by the way they're written. It's wiser to follow more stringent guidelines than the lesser ones where your helath is concerned.
mineral spirits:
http://apps.risd.edu/envirohealth_ms...ralSpirits.pdf
esp section 3: hazards identification,
but read the whole thing, including emergency and first aid procedures and safety precautions, and read more than one msds. Many of these are produced by manufacturers and do not give the whole story, as shown by different sheets having more or less complete disclosure.

The way information is writen can downplay information:

You should read the msds for ALL the ingedients in a product, and see what the health hazards for those ingredients separately.

Be aware, too, that what one person may not find offensive or "harmful" others do and will.
In most instances, these products are not generally needed, and especially for daily painting. For specific applications, perhaps, but not for daily painting. Why risk your health when it's so easy to paint without the risk?
Ella

Last edited by crafor : 09-13-2012 at 12:31 PM.
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:45 AM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.