WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > Explore Media > Casein, Gouache, and Egg Tempera
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-12-2012, 01:22 PM
vbuben's Avatar
vbuben vbuben is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 38
 
Hails from Canada
Best rewettable gouache brand?

I love how pan watercolors work - even if you only have a time for a "few" strokes, with pans you can use this time very productively. Setup time is effectively zero. No waste. All your colors are immediately available. So I am contemplating doing the same with gouache - getting some tubes, partially or fully transferring them to pans and letting them dry there. But it, of course, requires the paint to be rewettable.

The only somewhat comprehensive review of "panned" artistic gouache approach I found is Roz Wound Up by Roz Stendahl. She recommends schmincke horadam and M.Graham. However, she is clearly in the bed with schmincke (she did commission for them and there is a joined product - a gouache set), so the recommendation may be tinted by her commercial interests.

Thus the questions:
1. Who produces the best artistic rewettable gouache? Are you aware of any rewettability tests, reviews or reputable recommendations?

2. With the best rewettable brand you've tried - does the "rewetting" approach give you gouache feel and capabilities similar to out-of-tube approach?


Thanks in advance!
Reply With Quote
  #2   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-17-2012, 09:52 PM
Deborah Secor's Avatar
Deborah Secor Deborah Secor is offline
A WC! Legend
Rio Rancho, New Mexico
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,095
 
Hails from United States
Re: Best rewettable gouache brand?

I use the M. Graham gouache and very often rewet the already dried leftover paint in my butcher's tray. I use that probably 75-90% of the time, routinely adding only fresh white paint to the palette every time I paint. I find that it works quite well, and I only feel the need for a dollop of fresh color when I'm using a lot of one color and want to mix a considerable amount, or I need it to cover more completely (opaquely) and want it thick and juicy. That's one thing about the re-we paint--it never reconstitutes with quite as much body. But the M. Graham has plenty of pigment to stand rewetting well. The colors are brilliant and they stand being stretched with water, holding a lot of color as they're extended. The consistency changes, yes, the body, as I call it, but not the colors.

I have a few other brands. Holbein is good, but when rewet it has even less body. The MG has a creamier consistency. I have several colors of L&B gouache, which is stickier in a way, and tends to clump when dry, turning to chunks that sometimes float into the mixture. I can coax it into a more useful mixture, but I have to really play with it. The majority of my palette is M. Graham and I love it most!

I hope that helps...
__________________
Deborah
"All glory to Him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Landscape Painting in Pastels (free online book)
Gouache Blog
Reply With Quote
  #3   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-24-2012, 12:38 PM
Studio-1-F's Avatar
Studio-1-F Studio-1-F is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Maryland
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,642
 
Hails from United States
Re: Best rewettable gouache brand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vbuben
Thus the questions:
1. Who produces the best artistic rewettable gouache? Are you aware of any rewettability tests, reviews or reputable recommendations?

2. With the best rewettable brand you've tried - does the "rewetting" approach give you gouache feel and capabilities similar to out-of-tube approach
I am aware of no systematic scientific rewettability comparison tests that have been published. Here is a niche for you to fill! I'd be very interested in your results!

As far as anecdotal evidence goes, Ralph Parker reports: "I have a little plastic foldup watercolor palette that I took on a trip recently. It still had dried globs of paint from some outdoor sessions nearly a year before. I rolled a wet brush around on it, and it was good to go, although it never quite softens up completely like out of the tube. " More here. But I am not sure Mr. Parker mentions brands.

You also might explore what MacEvoy has to say on the topic here.

For me the best rewettable brand I've tried is Schmincke Horadam. Sorry! Graham's is very nice too.

I gave away all the Winsor&Newton (and miscellaneous Other brand) gouache tubes I had. Never used them after I got into the Schmincke and Graham's.

For me, the "rewetting" approach does almost (but not quite) give the gouache the feel and capabilities similar -- in a way -- to fresh paint. (Except for white, which does not re-wet well, in my limited experience.) But fresh-outta-the-tube gouache is unique. That's the most fun stuff to play with!

Jan
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-24-2012, 02:09 PM
Studio-1-F's Avatar
Studio-1-F Studio-1-F is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Maryland
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,642
 
Hails from United States
Re: Best rewettable gouache brand?

An alternative to squeezing gouache into pans, there's this mini-palette kit, all in a food container. The "palette" is inside the lid. The container is a "Lock & Lock" 12 oz. box. But any number of different little snap-lock food containers will work. I had to scrub the inside of the lid with a scouring pad to make it matte, so the paint wouldn't bead up.

Jan

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-24-2012, 08:31 PM
Deborah Secor's Avatar
Deborah Secor Deborah Secor is offline
A WC! Legend
Rio Rancho, New Mexico
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,095
 
Hails from United States
Re: Best rewettable gouache brand?

Love this kit, Jan!
__________________
Deborah
"All glory to Him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Landscape Painting in Pastels (free online book)
Gouache Blog
Reply With Quote
  #6   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-27-2012, 10:48 AM
Studio-1-F's Avatar
Studio-1-F Studio-1-F is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Maryland
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,642
 
Hails from United States
Re: Best rewettable gouache brand?

Thanks, Deborah! I should have also mentioned that I cut out a panel from a stiff translucent plastic report cover that just fits inside the lid, between the palette area and the tubes. it keeps the tubes from getting all gooped up with the paint. Essential piece of the kit!

Jan
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:16 AM
JamieWG's Avatar
JamieWG JamieWG is offline
A WC! Legend
New York's Hudson Valley
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 24,938
 
Hails from United States
Re: Best rewettable gouache brand?

I agree with Jan about the nice rewetting capability of the Schmincke Gouache. The M. Graham also rewets easily; however, the honey content attracts bees. If you paint plein air, this is a huge problem. I only made that mistake once...Never again! Since 95% of my gouache work is done out on location, I cannot have any M. Graham paints in my palette. Is it Schmincke that says they are going to put honey in their paints now? Guess I'm going to have to find another brand or just stick with WN/Holbein......

Lately I have been mixing a couple of drops of glycerin into my pans when I put in the paint. that has helped a lot with rewetting of other brands (like Winsor Newton), though there's nothing quite like the feel of freshly-squeezed tube paint. For white, I bring a tube or empty ink vial filled with gouache or Dr.Ph Martin Bleed-Proof White, or Daler-Rowney "Pro White".
__________________
My Blog/Website/Paintings/Demos/Studio Tours/Paintmaking/Pochade Boxes
If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-28-2012, 02:30 PM
Deborah Secor's Avatar
Deborah Secor Deborah Secor is offline
A WC! Legend
Rio Rancho, New Mexico
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,095
 
Hails from United States
Re: Best rewettable gouache brand?

I've been concerned about the bee issue, too, Jamie, though at present I don't paint plein air. I'm considering a small kit like the one Jan shared, but without my beloved M. Graham paints.

Oh, and Jan, thanks for the additional information! Yes, a cover would be necessary.
__________________
Deborah
"All glory to Him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Landscape Painting in Pastels (free online book)
Gouache Blog
Reply With Quote
  #9   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-16-2012, 07:44 PM
vbuben's Avatar
vbuben vbuben is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 38
 
Hails from Canada
Re: Best rewettable gouache brand?

Thanks everybody for fantastic advices and replies. I've purchased Schmincke Horadam gouache. Then
- I've transferred a bit of paint from each color to an empty full pan
- give it about a week to dry
- tried to paint with it!

Observations so far:
I've noticed that the paint in many cases cracked inside the pans (it really depends on the pigment, for example, cadmiums are not cracked at all). I saw similar cracking when I transferred watercolors from tubes to pans but to a much much lesser extend. The cracking of gouache, unfortunately, resulted in many pieces of loose pigment that can be easily dislodged from the pans... Which complicates my life a bit as it supposed to be a mobile setup.

Also, while I found the gouache to be easily rewettable, I am still experiencing probblem preparing large enough mixes. The issue is that in watercolor, I can create pool of water and then easily saturate it with the pigment. In gouache water works against me - I either get too watery mix to be called a gouache or too small amount of the mixed color. I am still looking for solution here...

Third issue is that when I transport my sketchbook in the backpack, due to the friction between pages some guache (though I never aply gouache too thickly) gets transferred to the opposite page (much like unfixed graphite). That never happened with watercolor. I am planning to try to fix the gouache with a layer of gum arabic.


Otherwise I love it!!!

Last edited by vbuben : 09-16-2012 at 07:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-17-2012, 12:31 PM
Studio-1-F's Avatar
Studio-1-F Studio-1-F is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Maryland
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,642
 
Hails from United States
Re: Best rewettable gouache brand?

I could never get gouache to work well in either pans or in those little lidded jars. Either way they dried up, cracked and rattled around, were hard to re-wet and were otherwise annoying. Which is why I switched to the fresh-tube-paints-on-a-small-palette setup. Much easier to use the gouache fresh.

<<< I am planning to try to fix the gouache with a layer of gum arabic. >>> I'd be worried that this would add a shine to the surface. Let us know if it does. An alternative might be the casein-based fixative Spectrafix. Might not be as shiny. Worth a try?

RE: paint transfer --- You also might try using glassine sheets as interleaves to help prevent that paint friction transfer to the back of the opposite page in the sketchbook You can either tape these on as you go or have Kinkos bind you a sketchbook with glassine sheets bound right in, between each page.

BTW, if you'd like to explore another product, Schmincke's Horadam Aquarell pans have not quite as much opacity as gouache, but still they're very VERY nice. And they have the portability and re-wettabilty of watercolors. Get a few half-pans in your most-used colors and test them. See what you think! My go-to sketch box is full of full and half pans. See below.

Jan

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

__________________
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:46 PM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.