Moderators?

[berkking]

Can we hear from our Moderators please?

This is, of course, a fundamental part of our lives. (The BIZZNEZZ aspect)Can we hear what little gems of wisdom they may, in there OH So Busy lives, have to say to the aristocratic stiffs of the art world?

Come on guys, earn your forum!

Nik

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"Well, God give them wisdom that have it. And those that are fools, let them use their talents!" Feste, 12th Night

[arlene]

Nik,
actually the job of moderator is just to make sure that threads stay on topic and that no one gets too out of hand with language, nastiness...hell you've heard the drill before.

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http://www.artdebut.com/arlene.htm

[berkking]

Actually there was a point. I'm curious about the way (if there is an identifiable one)that business practices of 'artist' Differ from those of 'bizznezz' people.

I ask because I had a 'suit' say that he wished that "artists behaved more like business people" Well I wanted to scream at him.

I told him that in my experience business people rarely pay artists what they are worth and almost never on time! When they have finished nickel-and-dimeing us to death they project a sense of smugness about what good business people are all about. Rarely do business 'people' have an understanding of what business they are actually in. The business aspect seems to stand alone as some kind of status in and of its own self-perpetuating world. If this is how he would like artists to 'behave' then this is waht he will get. The concept that he needed to understand 'art' and its practitioners just as much as artists need to understand business escaped him. 'Knowing your product' didn't occur to this bozzo.

So anyway, with this in mind, Do any of you think that a place like WetCanvas could thrive on the Stock Market or are suits just too-plain-stupid to know what a commodity it is? (Investmentin art etc)

Nik

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"Well, God give them wisdom that have it. And those that are fools, let them use their talents!" Feste, 12th Night

[arlene]

Nik,
excellent questions...why don't you post it on debates? bout time we get some good discussions going over there again.

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http://www.artdebut.com/arlene.htm

[timelady]

Interesting... I'd ask him what bit isn't "business-like". The way we do all our own marketing? The way we have sales and commissions contracts? The way we collect our fees? (or don't, as you've mentioned) The way we keep our accounts? Pay our own taxes and VAT? Manage our own pensions, health insurance and sick pay? How we do market research and network with other artists and clients? The way we act in accordance with international copyright and distribution laws? We even have professional societies (here in the UK I'm a member of the National Artists Association which aims for professional standards throughout the industry). The way most of us do this SINGLE-HANDEDLY without assistance from lawyers or accountants because galleries take so much in commission we see very little of our sales prices after costs?

It sounds like this person has had one bad experience and is chalking it up to all artists. That's like saying all retail shops are terrible after having one rude sales assistant.

Tina.


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http://www.tina-m.com

[LDianeJohnson]

Dear Nik,

I am a moderator because I wish to be. My goal is to distribute whatever I have learned to others...a virtual mentor of sorts.

That may sound trite, but as one who came up through the ranks the long way; as a Fine Artist eeking it through so called "art college" yet becoming an art educator in the early 70's; then [itailcs]really[/italics] training as an artist in the 80's, & 90's, I've come to a place where I want to be...creating art in tandem with teaching. I did not set out to sell my work. As a result of creating, my work sold, widely. I am here on occasion to pass along whatever I can to you, and those at WC.
Nik, you are a challenge, yet justified. I'm not here to perpetuate my own work...I do that elsewhere. I am here because I want to be.

Thanks for your question I have "an OH So Busy life". But...

Diane

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L. Diane Johnson NAPA, PSA
Plein Air Workshops

[bruin70]

i only became a moderator so i could go to the staff only forum....{<FONT COLOR="red">M</FONT c>}

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"it's alright to be judgmental,,,,,,,,if you have taste"...MILT

[degreene72]

Originally posted by bruin70:
i only became a moderator so i could go to the staff only forum....{<FONT COLOR="red">M</FONT c>}

and wouldn't we all like to know what goes on in there....
diane

[bruin70]

well,,we all chortle about everyone's tiny heads, for one....{<FONT COLOR="red">M</FONT c>}

oh,,,and btw,,,if de became a moderator, scott would have to delete 60% of our posts.

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"it's alright to be judgmental,,,,,,,,if you have taste"...MILT

[This message has been edited by bruin70 (edited February 06, 2001).]

[kemshmi]

Originally posted by berkking:
Can we hear from our Moderators please?

This is, of course, a fundamental part of our lives. (The BIZZNEZZ aspect)Can we hear what little gems of wisdom they may, in there OH So Busy lives, have to say to the aristocratic stiffs of the art world?

Come on guys, earn your forum!

Nik

la la la la laaaaaaaaaa

Kemshmi

[KatieMoe]

wow, there sure was a lot of emotion packed in that post, not too kindly on what seems like an interaction you had with someone who was trying to make a distinction between business people and artists.

I think in all industries, fine art just being one, there is a full spectrum of business people - from people conducting borderline official businesses, not doing paperwork, marketing, etc. to fully functioning corporations.

I am someone who is on both sides of the equation - I own a C corporation that employs people and I run my art business as a sole proprietorship.

I think when people find themselves saying things like they wish artists would behave more like business people, it might be they are dealing with people who might not have strength areas on the business side of the equation (versus doing the art work). But "business" (of which they refer to supposedly not being artists...) people also find themselves with areas of weakness. For example, I am not strong in finance so I make sure I have someone qualified doing my books. I feel no shame in that. I am strong at other aspects of business.

I have certainly dealt with artists who had little business skills but I've dealt with a lot of "business" people who also lack these skills - and I've dealt with artists who are running their business quite impressively.

So, as has been stated here already, there are all types of business people with all levels of business skills so there was probably no need to take this guy's statements personally.



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Kathleen McMahon
http://kathleenmcmahon.com/

[berkking]

These are informative things. (BTW I'm not being critical of moderators, I wanted to focus on how those of us who are professional artisits view our own business world)

Anyway. This happened years ago, but it still bugs me today. As Tina stated, the work that goes into marketing, accounting etc can be very draining and burn alot of time and energy. As Diane says, the rewards of being an artist and educator are a satisfying way to make a living.

My issue came about because I could not see how this self-professed business man was actually making a living. His remark was imbued with a criticism of the artists not the art. He liked the art because it suited his percieved social status as a 'player'.Th e artists role was to conform to his notion of business practice which would make HIS role a little easier. It seemed that he 'loved' art and the only thing that spoiled the recipe for him was that it involved artists.

My comments were aimed at finding a balance between what artists find comfortable when dealing with people who view art purely as a commodity and those that produce the commodity as a necessary evil, a nuisance to be humored.

Even though these isolated issues arise, I wonder how pervasive they really are. I believe the moderators of the business forum would probably have a better insight than others.

Nik

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"Well, God give them wisdom that have it. And those that are fools, let them use their talents!" Feste, 12th Night

[barb dougherty]

I am a moderator - to me that means the more I do the less I know. IN the art business we look for success and then we look for more of the same - There is only one real success - that is getting to do the artwork day after day and not being waylaid by finances or other nasty elves named the haftodo's The rest is realizing that there are one hundred good ways to do it and if anyone says you should do it one way then its probably better to do it another. Art is not a commodity its culture there is really no such monster as art business its only ways and means.And as to moderation I vote for that (moderation) as well in all the parts of my life except for in my art.
Barb Dougherty
If you have a question on art business I have one hell of a lot of experience and i would not mind sharing - email me if you like
barbdoug@dmv.com


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barb dougherty