Whine!

Roan · #1 01-22-2001, 09:22 AM

If everyone doesn't mind, I'd like to take a couple minutes to add a WHINE! here :P

I really really want to paint stuff I can put up for sale on 'Nation, but I am constantly getting innundated with commissions. Now, these are el cheapo commissions that I'm either not getting paid for -- favors, if you will -- or getting paid very little. Suddenly I've become the neighborhood deceased dog portraitist. I guess this is what happens when you do a portrait for a neighbor for free and they get carried away and tell everyone how "cheap" you are. grrr.

Sigh, this is only a half-hearted whine, really. I appreciate the "business" and I do need to spread the word, but sometimes I wanna paint stuff just for me or at least be able to say "no". Hard to do that when it's a neighbor.

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Roan
Nan dèanadh mo làmh mar a dh'iarradh mo shùil!
-- If my hand could do as my eye would desire!
RoanStudio.com <-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

sue ellen · #2 01-22-2001, 09:27 AM

why is it that no one ever says to their dentist....."It must be nice to have such a natural talent.....something you enjoy doing that comes so easy to you....and by the way could you do this root canal for me for a fraction of what it really costs because you are SO GOOD at it and you ENJOY doing it!

sue ellen

Roan · #3 01-22-2001, 09:41 AM

<CENTER>EXACTLY!</CENTER>

You hit the nail on the head, there, Sue Ellen :P

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Roan
Nan dèanadh mo làmh mar a dh'iarradh mo shùil!
-- If my hand could do as my eye would desire!
RoanStudio.com <-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

arlene · #4 01-22-2001, 11:18 AM

Roan,
When someone comes to you and says I saw the painting at so and so's house and she said you did it free...you say to them, "no i did it as a gift."

"My price for a dog portrait x size is:----"

Then stick with it. No discussion, no argument. No bargaining.

When they start to question you and haggle on price say, "This is how I make my living. I'm sure that at the end of the week, your boss doesn't come to you and start bargaining with you about your salary." Say this in a nice tone with a big smile on your face.

I think back to last summer when I had my Diner showing at a fine craft show. A gentleman came up to me to say how much he loved it, and he'd like to buy it. It was priced at $2500.00. (It's a big, complicated piece and very detailed) He said there were two things he'd like to discuss.

1. he needed it shipped to TX. I said no problem. and 2. Could I do better on the price? Just out of curiousity, I asked him what he had in mind.

He said $2200.00. I looked at him and shook my head no. He said then how much? I said $2500.00.

He said we cant bargain? I said no, that in actuality the piece was probably worth double that, and I'm willing to hold onto it if it doesn't sell.

He looked sheepish and said he'd have to think about it, and he'd call me if he wanted it.

Wouldn't you know that not more than 2 hours later, he was back paying the full price. If they want your work, they will pay for it, if it's not priced in the stratusphere.

Make up predetermined prices for each size and then stick to it. BTW: custom work should always be priced at 20-25% higher than your originals at the same size. Also you should always get a minimum and more reasonably 1/2 of the fee upfront...with that money being non refundable. That's for your time and your supplies.

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http://www.artdebut.com/arlene.htm

bruin70 · #5 01-22-2001, 02:18 PM

you have to charge money. everyone thinks art is a hobby. especially the locals.....{M}

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"it's alright to be judgmental,,,,,,,,if you have taste"...MILT

Phyllis Rennie · #6 01-22-2001, 07:48 PM

Also--let them know that you are very busy and can't get to it immediately.

Roan · #7 01-22-2001, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arlene:
Roan,
When someone comes to you and says I saw the painting at so and so's house and she said you did it free...you say to them, "no i did it as a gift."

"My price for a dog portrait x size is:----"

Then stick with it. No discussion, no argument. No bargaining.

You're right, of course. This was the woman I painted the Doberman, Max, for. I wish I had done what you are suggesting in the first place, but she caught me -- still sick and trying to make it to the mailbox at the end of our pipestem -- started telling me how her brother had seen Max's painting and she asked me to paint her mother's deceased dog as a birthday present, then went on and on about her brother wanting one and how he "might pay me" I was totally floored and didn't respond. Floored meaning I was on the verge of getting angry with her -- no, I was angry. Here I was, obviously sick and she knew I was sick, and I'm panting and swaying 'cause I had bronchial asthma and hearing "might pay me". Grr.

Next day -- I swear she was waiting for me -- she hands me an envelope full of pictures of Casey. Casey is a dog that lived right across from us and had been killed over Christmas. I WANTED to paint that dog for her owners as a gift. They were totally heart-broken and I knew and liked that dog, too.

Anyhow, when I said "great! I'll get started on this right away!" she said, "but I need that picture of my mother's dog before February 14th." Sigh. I really like this person, I've had her SLR 35mm for almost 9 months so I do "owe" her, but damn, pushy or what!

Quote:

When they start to question you and haggle on price say, "This is how I make my living. I'm sure that at the end of the week, your boss doesn't come to you and start bargaining with you about your salary." Say this in a nice tone with a big smile on your face.

Will do! When I give her this painting, I'm going to also give her a bunch of my business cards and a sheet that outlines my prices. No more freebies!

Quote:

. . .Wouldn't you know that not more than 2 hours later, he was back paying the full price. If they want your work, they will pay for it, if it's not priced in the stratusphere.

Again, you're right. Sheesh, I didn't have this much of a problem when I was doing web sites! Maybe it was because I charged by the hour. I dunno. What IS with me?

Quote:

Make up predetermined prices for each size and then stick to it. BTW: custom work should always be priced at 20-25% higher than your originals at the same size. Also you should always get a minimum and more reasonably 1/2 of the fee upfront...with that money being non refundable. That's for your time and your supplies.

20-25% more? Hrm, I'd never heard that before, but I guess it makes sense. What's the basis for that? I mean, the reasoning?

I'm going to draw up a price sheet soon as I get this one done.

Thanks for the advice, Arlene!

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Roan
Nan dèanadh mo làmh mar a dh'iarradh mo shùil!
-- If my hand could do as my eye would desire!
RoanStudio.com <-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

Roan · #8 01-22-2001, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bruin70:
you have to charge money. everyone thinks art is a hobby. especially the locals.....{M}

Boy, you got THAT right!

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Roan
Nan dèanadh mo làmh mar a dh'iarradh mo shùil!
-- If my hand could do as my eye would desire!
RoanStudio.com <-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

Roan · #9 01-22-2001, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phyllis Rennie:
Also--let them know that you are very busy and can't get to it immediately.

But if they want to pay me, I could possibly fit it in somehow? :P

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Roan
Nan dèanadh mo làmh mar a dh'iarradh mo shùil!
-- If my hand could do as my eye would desire!
RoanStudio.com <-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

TPS · #10 01-22-2001, 11:44 PM

The reason for increased pricing on commissions is because you are taking time out of your regular work to do it. It often takes more planning and special attention to please the client. It's generally a good idea to do a rough or comp of how you plan to do it, and have it approved, before beginning the actual piece. This too takes extra effort. The up front deposit, is because noone else is going to want Aunt Gertrude's dog portrait.

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http://www.artbydj.com

arlene · #11 01-23-2001, 01:15 AM

Thank you dj for answering.

Roan?

What David said!

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http://www.artdebut.com/arlene.htm

arlene · #12 01-23-2001, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Next day -- I swear she was waiting for me --she hands me an envelope full of pictures of Casey. Casey is a dog that lived right across from us and had been killed over Christmas. I WANTED to paint that dog for her owners as a gift. They were totally heart-broken and I knew and liked that dog, too.

that's not a problem. it's your choice.

Quote:

Anyhow, when I said "great! I'll get started on this right away!" she said, "but I need that picture of my mother's dog before February 14th." Sigh. I really like this person, I've had her SLR 35mm for almost 9 months so I do "owe" her, but damn, pushy or what!

1. if she wanted the camera back so much she could have asked. you owe her nothing, except maybe a bottle of wine, which is all she'd probably get u under the same circumstances. somehow use of a camera doesn't equal several hundred dollars in free art.

2. as for her mother's dog, you call her up and say btw: the picture of the dog will be x dollars...I'll need 1/2 upfront. And remind her that this is how you earn a living. No discussion. She doesn't like it, let her take the fing dog to JC Penney to get a photo for $19.99

If she starts to balk, say how u never said anything about price, etc, remind her that when she caught you, You were too sick to think clearly, and you're sorry to put her and you in such an awkward position, but you cannot take time away from your paying work and reiterate again that you DON'T DO FREEBIES! Especially now with a new baby on the way...after all, you need to put in as much time for your paying customers as possible now.

Quote:

Will do! When I give her this painting, I'm going to also give her a bunch of my business cards and a sheet that outlines my prices. No more freebies!

Umm i'm gonna sound like rh here and say, "get some backbone and tell her now."

Tell her you'll do the one for the neighbors and give it as a joint gift from her and you, but no other freebies."

Don't wait for next time.

Why? it devalues your work to do it for free, and then what happens is she'll never think it's worth paying for next time.

Or as my mother used to say, (course she was talking about sex), "Why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free?"

Quote:

Again, you're right. Sheesh, I didn't have this much of a problem when I was doing web sites! Maybe it was because I charged by the hour. I dunno. What IS with me?

It's not valuing what you do highly enough. It's thinking that your work isn't good enough to be sold. I could go on, but you know the drill.

Quote:

I'm going to draw up a price sheet soon as I get this one done.

As I said do it now. And hand one to your neighbor when you tell her you need to be paid. If she's a good friend, be generous and give her 10% off the price on the sheet.

Heck for 10%, you can be a sport.

Quote:

Thanks for the advice, Arlene!

You're welcome!

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http://www.artdebut.com/arlene.htm

[This message has been edited by arlene (edited January 23, 2001).]

timelady · #13 01-23-2001, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arlene:

Make up predetermined prices for each size and then stick to it. BTW: custom work should always be priced at 20-25% higher than your originals at the same size. Also you should always get a minimum and more reasonably 1/2 of the fee upfront...with that money being non refundable. That's for your time and your supplies.
[/b]

Thanks so much for that!!! I've been hesitating about a commission price because I didn't want to scare off the buyer! But he wants a very large painting and I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to sell if he were to back out of the agreement. The % up front I had figured on, but not the 20% higher price. Also, I'm going to draft up a written agreement, what is the usual policy if the buyer isn't happy with the end product? Clearly, reworking the painting means more time which is not being paid for.

Tina.

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http://www.tina-m.com

gill · #14 01-23-2001, 07:40 PM

Sometimes I feel like charging more for comissions as many times they turn out to be something I wouldn't normally paint, but when you get a snap shot to use like you got, unless the person is good with a camara, you might be setting yourself up by painting from a "bad sketch" so to speak. I like to use my own photos if possible.
gill

Roan · #15 01-23-2001, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TPS:
The reason for increased pricing on commissions is because you are taking time out of your regular work to do it. It often takes more planning and special attention to please the client. It's generally a good idea to do a rough or comp of how you plan to do it, and have it approved, before beginning the actual piece. This too takes extra effort. The up front deposit, is because noone else is going to want Aunt Gertrude's dog portrait.

Excellent reasoning. People will ask why I charge more for commmissions. Thanks, TPS.

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Roan
Nan dèanadh mo làmh mar a dh'iarradh mo shùil!
-- If my hand could do as my eye would desire!
RoanStudio.com <-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

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