Displaying without Glass

art.lover · #1 05-19-2012, 10:39 AM

I spent quite some time reading about this and have a few questions:

When using CP on paper and CP on canvas, what should be used, fixative or varnish or both if I want to keep them without glass?

Does the varnish dry out properly or is a bit tacky? (Not used a varnish so far so have no experience)

Can fixative & varnish be used on all types of colored pencils?

What if I use acrylics as underpainting for CP, (on paper and on canvas) is it still fine to use fixative and/or varnish?

Thanks

Hoofnpaw · #2 05-19-2012, 09:46 PM

Gosh, I can't answer about the acrylics part....but I will say that I never use any fixative or varnish on my CPs...Alot of folks do use fixative because they have problems with "bloom" but that has never been an issue for me. Sorry I am not alot of help!

Sean

bleuie · #3 05-20-2012, 06:43 AM

With CP on paper you have to mount it first on a board so it won't buckle when varnished. I suggest you learn the proper way of using spray fixative first before going on to varnish. Improper application can ruin your work. Search youtube for video tutorials.

Fixative and Varnish are two different products but both can be used for CP. Fixative is much easier to apply and good enough if you're going to frame under glass. Both can change the final appearance of you work.

CP won't stick very well over acrylic underpainting. It can be done but you can't get many layers and varnishing two opposing medium is complex. Acrylic is waterbased and CP is wax or oil based, oil and water don't mix, it will result in poor adhesion.

**ocmd123** · #4 05-20-2012, 07:35 AM

Here are a couple past threads that may help to answer some of your questions.
Do You Varnish?
Acrylic Varnish Over CP?

art.lover · #5 05-21-2012, 02:17 AM

Thanks for replying Sean, Bleuie and Elaine.
I have seen some people frame watercolor paintings on paper without glass and thought about trying it with CP

I have also seen artists combining acrylics with CP, therefore the question about fixing or varnishing such a work, so as not to have a glass frame.

I was thinking of using spray varnish as mentioned in the thread link given in the above post. So far I have not been able to find pastel boards or illustration boards available here so I have only paper & canvas available for CP work.

Thanks Elaine for the links but I have already read them and some other threads too as I mentioned before.

I will summarize it here for my reference:
Use fixative before varnish for oil based pencils.
Apply spray varnish only after a few days the work has been completed (apply 3 coats, allow each coat to dry)
Colors may darken by using fixative and varnish.

I read the links you gave once again and still have some questions:
The watercolor paintings are framed without glass and some artists use fixative and varnish on them.
1- Is it necessary to use a strong support for CP on paper if I want to varnish it? Will it work if I tape the paper to a hard board while varnishing and detach it after it has dried or will it still buckle?
2- Also is fixative required for wax based pencils or can varnish be sprayed directly?
3- Should the painting be in vertical or horizontal position when spraying fixative and varnish?
4- what about the paintings that have watercolor pencils as underpainting? Is it ok to varnish them? How to seal these paintings?

Bleuie, which varnish do you use? I will try to find some videos.
Thanks

Mado · #6 05-21-2012, 02:34 AM

I don't have the answers to all your questions as i'm still experimenting on this as well.
Here are some links that can also be useful for you.

http://esterroi.com/blog/2010/04/glassless-framing/

You can see the results of my experimentations on my blog.
You can also see the products I use.They don't change the colors on white papers but don't use fixative on dark papers.

http://les-crayons-de-mado.blog4ever...entations.html

art.lover · #7 05-21-2012, 02:34 AM

Actually I recently purchased 10 sheets of 22" by 30" watercolor paper thinking it will be good for CP as till then I knew paper as the only support for CP. I Also got a few paper pads for CP.

I am trying to use up that paper before I buy any other support for my paintings. I work in graphite, CP and have started acrylics recently but I don't like glass on the paintings as it gives lot of reflections. I made one graphite work on half a sheet and used conte pencils on another half sheet, but the matting and framing was quite a lot. This is why I am trying to find a way of displaying work on paper without glass. If anyone has any suggestions for using up that paper and not having to try any other media? (I would first like to use up what I already have) it would be very helpful for me.
Thanks

art.lover · #8 05-21-2012, 02:38 AM

Thanks for replying Mado, I will go through the links you posted,

{but the second link is not working, I see asteriks in the link } well I don't see the second link now, weird!
I will check your blog
Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mado

I don't have the answers to all your questions as i'm still experimenting on this as well.
Here are some links that can also be useful for you.

http://esterroi.com/blog/2010/04/glassless-framing/

You can see the results of my experimentations on my blog.
You can also see the products I use.They don't change the colors on white papers but don't use fixative on dark papers.

http://les-crayons-de-mado.blog4ever...entations.html

Mado · #9 05-21-2012, 03:02 AM

I 've supressed the second link as it wasn't working.

art.lover · #10 05-21-2012, 05:11 AM

@ Mado, I read the links you gave, the method is very good and does help but unfortunately the clayboard used in that method is not available here, you have used a plywood for mounting, but you found it expensive.

I am trying to find something that is not expensive but it would be even better if I did not had to glue my painting on paper to anything. I am hoping someone has a solution for me

Mado · #11 05-21-2012, 09:04 AM

The clayboard is not available in Europe either that is why I was looking for alternatives.
The Tintoretto board (it is the way is it called) I show at the end of my article costed around 20 euros (50 x40 cm).
The board in the exemple just above (with the sea landscape) is very cheap but has ugly edges.
The glue is ok from small drawings but too difficult to handle with bigger ones (it rolls).The glue I used is archival and solvant free.It is a glue for framing.
I found another thing to secure the drawing to the board but i haven't bought it yet.
It is a double tack film that comes in large sheets : The problem is that I'll have to order it from Germany and that will increase the price.

Here is the link :
http://fr.y-o-w.com/consommables/feu...-transparente/

Candle · #12 05-21-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by art.lover

Thanks for replying Sean, Bleuie and Elaine.
I have seen some people frame watercolor paintings on paper without glass and thought about trying it with CP

I have also seen artists combining acrylics with CP, therefore the question about fixing or varnishing such a work, so as not to have a glass frame.

I was thinking of using spray varnish as mentioned in the thread link given in the above post. So far I have not been able to find pastel boards or illustration boards available here so I have only paper & canvas available for CP work.

Thanks Elaine for the links but I have already read them and some other threads too as I mentioned before.

I will summarize it here for my reference:
Use fixative before varnish for oil based pencils.
Apply spray varnish only after a few days the work has been completed (apply 3 coats, allow each coat to dry)
Colors may darken by using fixative and varnish.

I read the links you gave once again and still have some questions:
The watercolor paintings are framed without glass and some artists use fixative and varnish on them.
1- Is it necessary to use a strong support for CP on paper if I want to varnish it? Will it work if I tape the paper to a hard board while varnishing and detach it after it has dried or will it still buckle?
2- Also is fixative required for wax based pencils or can varnish be sprayed directly?
3- Should the painting be in vertical or horizontal position when spraying fixative and varnish?
4- what about the paintings that have watercolor pencils as underpainting? Is it ok to varnish them? How to seal these paintings?

Bleuie, which varnish do you use? I will try to find some videos.
Thanks

I don't have experience with all of the things you asked about, but where I do have experience I will answer what I can.

I use wax-based pencils on paper. (Prismacolor and Derwent Colorsoft on Stonehenge).
I spray the varnish on without using any fixative.
I tape the corners of the piece to foam board before spraying, and have not had any issues with buckling. I apply at least three heavy coats, allowing to dry between each coat.
The varnish I use does not specify whether the picture should be in vertical or horizontal position while spraying. I tend to hold it upright, angled slightly away from me, and then rotate it each time I spray on a new coat, so that it gets hit from every angle. The can on this product says it is for use on watercolor, acrylic, oil pastel, oils, and colored pencil. So while I have not yet tried an underpainting, it should be safe to use if I do so.
Regarding glass, I attend a local chapter of CPSA. We have several professional cp artists who attend. I brought a piece for critique that was varnished, matted and framed, but not under glass. They all strongly advised me to get it put under glass, for the extra protection. One lady said she was showing her work and a fellow artist came up and rubbed her thumb roughly and directly on her colored pencil painting. It didn't damage it, but gave the artist a real scare. Apparently it is not uncommon to have people make the mistake of touching the work. That is why they are pushing me strongly towards glass, and after hearing the story I'm inclined to agree.
Hope that helps a little.

johanneL · #13 05-21-2012, 09:50 PM

Ester Roi is famous cp artist (She invented the icarus board) and she always frames her art without glass..her process sounds complicated but if you're interested, here is the link that describes how she does it

http://esterroi.com/blog/category/framing/

art.lover · #14 05-22-2012, 11:30 PM

@Mado, I can understand, I too do not have much options available here and ordering them increases the price quite a lot

If only some good options were available !

@johanneL, thanks for the link, I had already read it as Mado gave the link to Ester Roi in her first post in this thread. And as I have mentioned before, I do not have these materials available here and am still searching for some options.

@Candle, thanks a lot for posting, which varnish do you use? How much does it darken your paintings? When framing without glass, what do you use as backing for the paper? the foam board that you tape it to or something else? How do you space the painting from the frame?

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