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Old 04-30-2012, 12:41 PM
edwardII edwardII is offline
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New beginning with oils.

I am new to oil painting but not to painting as a whole as I have worked off and on with watercolor over the last two years. Slowly I have put together my starting kit and am about to purchase some 200ml. tubes of the Lukas 1862 paints as they are in the mid-level artist grade range I am seeking. I don't feel I need the top of the line supplies just to learn to mix, use mediums and application techniques in oils so I'm fairly sold on Jerry's sale. I do have a couple of questions about starting colors, the relevance/need etc.

When I started with w/c I had bought no less then 10 colors of the W&N Cotman line and I was fine with that but my learning and painting really took off and developed when I purchased the "Try Out" set of 6 from Maimeri Blu. The set included the three primaries and a green + burnt umber, raw sienna. I found, at least in watercolor that the line of 6 plus maybe an ultra blue/cobalt and a Cad yellow, alizarin crim. was more then enough to do full color pieces and color variation was not an issue. I eventually used some of my other Cotman colors such as Payne's Grey and Ivory black, cobalt turquoise and an Azo yellow but my point is that I didn't require the Cads&Cobalts right off the bat and the Maimeri set was only 36$ as I recall.

So the question is, is there anything too drastically different when switching from watercolor to oils? The color wheel is still the same, I'll need to use a lot more black and white for sure but can one start with the good ol' primaries for decent result and learning exp.? I have read where many tell starters to mix own greens and I am of course down with that but I see that Cad yellow and red med. (scarlet?) is referred to often. I kind of wince at plunking down 25+ dollars for a cad right now if a Hansa will do.

Any thoughts/advice on this would be appreciated. Sorry if this is a retread issue but I have seen much on this paint Vs. that but less on entry color selection.

Also, anyone start off with using the Gamblin sketch oils? The use of a colorless filler sounds better to me compared to all the jazz I am aware of that goes into so many "economy" grade paints.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:18 PM
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DonnasArt DonnasArt is offline
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Re: New beginning with oils.

If I were you I would start with a small set. One of my errors in the beginning was having too many colors and not understanding mixing at all. I went back to a limit3ed pallet and progressed from there. Your past start of "The set included the three primaries and a green + burnt umber, raw sienna" sounds ideal. Not to dismiss buying separately at Jerry's (I like them and Lucas) but you might find that you can get a kit at a local craft store cheaper to start. I don't know where you are located but Michales and Hoppy Lobby often have them (I think I got a set under $10.00) And forget black (you will use it little if at all as many suggest to not even have it (Mix your own). You WILL need white more than any of the colors.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:01 PM
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Jason1616 Jason1616 is online now
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Re: New beginning with oils.

Welcome to the wonderful world of oils! Watercolor is a whole different animal. If you are used to watercolors, you will definitely want to spend some time playing around with your new oils to get used to the feel of them.

I think you made a really good choice with the Lukas 1862 oils. As you said, they are not top of the line, but they are a good quality artists' paint and you won't be struggling with poor quality materials.

In watercolor you work light to dark, gradually building up the darks. Plus, once you lay down a color it's pretty much there for good and it's much harder to correct mistakes in watercolor. Oils are just the opposite. In oils one generally works from dark to light, and they are one of the most forgiving mediums. If you make a mistake, just scrape off and paint again! I'm sure you will come to love the juicy think lights you can layer on with oil paints. Keep your darks thinner and more translucent...that helps create a sense of depth in oils.

One thing I highly recommend...Once you've had some practice, paint on a surface that is primed with oil primer. You can purchase canvas and panels at Jerry's or Blick that are oil primed, but the most economic way is to use Gamblin's Oil Ground and prime them yourself. Just use it to go over a canvas or canvas board that already has acrylic gesso on it and you'll be good to go.

You certainly don't need to buy genuine cadmiums if you don't want to spend the money, but they do have a wonderful quality. The Lukas prices are great for genuine cadmiums. As a basic palette to start with I would recommend a warm and cool of each primary, one tubed version of each secondary, and then a few earths tones to round things out. Here is a list that I would say is good for the Lukas 1862 colors (this is only my suggestion):

Cadmium Red Light or Lukas Red (warm red)
Magenta Primary (cool red)
Cadmium Orange or Permanent Orange
Cadmium Yellow Lemon or Lemon Yellow (cool yellow)
Cadmium Yellow or Permanent Yellow Deep (warm yellow)
Phthalo Green
Phthalo Blue (warm blue)
Ultramarine (cool blue)
Cobalt Violet Hue (Dioxazine Violet)
Yellow Ochre
Burnt Sienna
Burnt Umber

Titanium-Zinc or "Mixed" White. Lukas doesn't make a mixed white, and I would avoid straight Titanium or Zinc by themselves. I highly recommend Winsor & Newton's "Flake White Hue" on this one. I think this is a good list of colors to start with. It's always best to start with the highest chroma (saturated) color you can get. You can always tone them down, but it's impossible to make a dull (low chroma) color brighter.

Also avoid using Alizarin Crimson. A lot of painters still swear by that color, but it's not permanent and will fade easily. A much more lightfast and nearly identical color is Rembrandt's Permanent Madder Deep.

Have fun and I hope this helps!!

Jason
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:37 PM
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Carcharhinus Carcharhinus is offline
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Re: New beginning with oils.

You don't need 200ml tubes at all unless you plan on being incredibly prolific and selling enough work to support it. The only colour you'll need in 200ml is white.

I use Michael Harding's and W&N. I have:

W&N Yellow Ochre
W&N Alizarin Crimson
W&N Titanium White
W&N Naples Yellow Deep
W&N Windsor Blue (15ml sample)
W&N Windsor Yellow (15ml sample)
Harding Raw Umber
Harding Venetian Red
Harding Scarlet Lake
Harding Ultramarine
Harding Sap Green
Harding Ivory Black

I could comfortably live with just the White, Naples Yellow, Venetian Red, Raw Umber and Ultramarine. I can mix a good black from Raw Umber and Ultramarine. I'm going to but a Burnt Sienna because I get a bit annoyed mixing a reddish brown all the time. I might buy a cad red and a cad yellow soon because they're so strong and opaque, but I'm not sure whether my style would really benefit from them yet. I'm still a beginner.

The student palette is a good primer. Do a search on these forums. Student palette is a white, a black, an earth red and an earth yellow. You can mix a good approximation of anything from these. I'd personally replace the black with some colours that mix a black though, because then you'll have a black that wont muddy your other colours and some other colours to play with when you need. I've tried to mix my ivory black in to things before and just ended up with a ton of horrible grey-ish colours. The last few times I've painted I didn't even put black on my palette.

I'm new, I only have three finished paintings under my belt but I came from watercolours too so I was in the same position as you. But so far, this is what I've learned.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:39 PM
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Keith Russell Keith Russell is offline
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Re: New beginning with oils.

Really, there are so many different ways to paint with oils, and the thinking process when using oils is radically different than the thought process behind watercolours, that without knowing how you plan to paint in oils, it's hard to recommend colours (pigments) mediums, etc.

What is attracting you to oils at this point? Are you seeing work by certain artists that you really admire, or...what? Are you interested in painting alla prima, en plein aire, or in an indirect (more "Classical", or "hyper-realistic" style...) etc.?
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:56 PM
edwardII edwardII is offline
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Re: New beginning with oils.

Wow, thanks for the responses, I knew I could count on the WetCanvas crowd. As not to spam I will reply to some of the advice and questions asked in this one post. As to what Donnasart stated I will try to keep a small palette to begin with, one can always add colors as it strikes the fancy, least it's how I collected my ready made secondaries

I really appreciate the guidance from Jason, my watercolor palette is now just warm and cool primaries with B.Umber and either yellow ocher or raw sienna. The tip of using an oiled primed surface I'll admit I have not heard up till now and appreciate it. Most of the books from library start one off on acrylic gessoed grounds or the ready primed stuff. I am in fact drawn to oils for the thinned glazes etc. I feel a need to work too quickly in w/c and I am a bit passed the point of just having to deal with any old mistake I make...scrubbing out usually results in a poor surface in w/c and I guess I'm just not mistake free enough to really love what I am doing with it anymore.

I guess that answers the question Keith had put to me about my motivation to use oils as well as now looking at the works of the Impressionist and Van Gogh, Degas and just so many others. I won't be dropping watercolor all together and really enjoy the spontaneity of it but am wishing to explore other mediums now that I'm back into drawing/painting in general.

Also, about the 200ml tubes, for me, I have a hard time with the "paint like a millionaire" attitude. It would be nice but I am all for keeping my brushes clean and well stored and my paints the same. I am still unable to just squirt out big globs of DS Cobalt blue like I'm going to be icing a cake I feel more comfortable "messing" around when I know I have a good amount to do so with, and what makes it a reality is the prices on Lukas 200ml.'s in the colors I want are 11.52$ that is less then many 37ml. of other brands for like pigments.

Having written all this I will likely add a couple of the Cads in my next go round in purchasing paints but will hold with primaries and earths for now. Plus, thanks for the thoughts on the flake white, I do recall having heard that before and now I shouldn't be forgetting it. And to Carcharhinus: I have gone through same issues with black in w/c and thanks for the reminder to make own blacks in oils too...like has been said, oil is a completely different animal, but I am excited to get started and learn more.

Thanks again helping me to decide, Mark.
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