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Old 04-17-2012, 05:17 PM
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Barium in Cadmiums

Hi

I was thinking of replacing some of my Cadmium colours and was wondering if it is worthwhile to get cadmiums without Barium.

The cadmiums in my 20 year old tubes seem chalky and stiff but perhaps that is because of the age and not the paint.

I'm so far quite happy with Hansa Yellow Med as a replacement for Cad Yellow Med. (it's quite opaque) but the Hansa Yellow lights/lemon are not light fast.

The Napthol red's are too transparent and don't seem to replace Cadmium Red light.
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:23 PM
SSB SSB is offline
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Re: Barium in Cadmiums

I like the way pure cadmium in yellow looks, but in red or orange it doesn't seem to matter much to me.
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:51 PM
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WFMartin WFMartin is offline
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Re: Barium in Cadmiums

I use Grumbacher's Cad Red Light, Cad Red Medium, and Cad Red Deep, each of which has "Barium" as part of its name, eg.: Cadmium Barium Red Medium.

I don't believe that Barium adds any color whatsoever to the paint, and I think it is only some sort of a "filler", or "extender", or intert ingredient. It doesn't bother me that my Cadmium colors have Barium as one of its ingredients.
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:10 AM
cb3 cb3 is offline
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Re: Barium in Cadmiums

Some info:
http://cameo.mfa.org/browse/record.a...e=c&bro wse=1
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:30 AM
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Einion Einion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redgreen
I was thinking of replacing some of my Cadmium colours and was wondering if it is worthwhile to get cadmiums without Barium.
Cadmium-barium pigments and their cadmium counterparts are reasonably similar, other than cost the key difference is that the straight cads are a little higher in chroma.

Whether there's enough difference to matter is a judgement call. When I first tried a range made with cadmium-barium pigments because I was used to the regular cadmiums I expected that the duller versions would bother me but once I got to mixing with them I barely noticed. I think bottom line is it depends on how much you might need ultra-bright yellows through to reds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redgreen
I'm so far quite happy with Hansa Yellow Med as a replacement for Cad Yellow Med. (it's quite opaque) but the Hansa Yellow lights/lemon are not light fast.
Some are, some aren't.

There are a number of non-cadmium pigments available in this category if you were seeking to move away from the cads for any reason. They're all more transparent though, sometimes lots more.

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Old 04-18-2012, 11:11 AM
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Re: Barium in Cadmiums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Einion
Cadmium-barium pigments and their cadmium counterparts are reasonably similar, other than cost the key difference is that the straight cads are a little higher in chroma.

Whether there's enough difference to matter is a judgement call. When I first tried a range made with cadmium-barium pigments because I was used to the regular cadmiums I expected that the duller versions would bother me but once I got to mixing with them I barely noticed. I think bottom line is it depends on how much you might need ultra-bright yellows through to reds.

This is a good point. For most uses the yellows containing barium behave very similar. I think it is good for artists to not only develop a method of working, but also be versatile enough to slighly alter practices, to make use of new or alternative products.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:31 AM
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Re: Barium in Cadmiums

Quote:
Originally Posted by redgreen
Hi

I was thinking of replacing some of my Cadmium colours and was wondering if it is worthwhile to get cadmiums without Barium.

The cadmiums in my 20 year old tubes seem chalky and stiff but perhaps that is because of the age and not the paint.

I'm so far quite happy with Hansa Yellow Med as a replacement for Cad Yellow Med. (it's quite opaque) but the Hansa Yellow lights/lemon are not light fast.

The Napthol red's are too transparent and don't seem to replace Cadmium Red light.


Hi Redgreen, btw, compliments on your name!

As has been stated above, some accomplished folks use these, and they are nice paints. For most purposes they are very similar to those paints that do not contain the barium. If you are wondering about an exception, out of curiosity, lets look at cadmium barium red light. Compare this, for example to something such as genuine vermilion. If we lay out a paint nut of vermilion, and one of cadmium red light, they will (depending on brands) look very similar. If we then mix an equal amount of ivory black into each red paint nut, we will see how differently they behave. The ivory black mixed with genuine vermilion will resemble something similar to a dark red earth color. Very similar results with cadmium red light (without barium). The ivory black mixed with cadmium barium red light, will look like a reddish gray. This is due to the fact that barium is a white, and was coprecipitated to jack up the value, without creating as much effect as some of the other whites would, in terms of chroma. This is all to mimic the higher values associated with the single pigment versions.

However, for the most part, it would be wasteful to mix black with genuine vermilion, or cadmium red light, to obtain something akin to an earth color, so those colors are very useful for final high value high chroma scumbles. In that capacity, the cadmium barium red light, will behave almost the same, and can be considered to be more lightfast than vermilion. Equally as lightfast as cadmium red light, yet less expensive.
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:05 PM
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Re: Barium in Cadmiums

Thanks for the info

Sounds like Barium may not be the culprit.

I'm thinking that the slightly chalky aspect might be the addition of barium but at least they are very opaque. Will stick to theses for a while and try a bit of medium.

I used to have a Cadmium Red Med/Dark in Bellini (which no longer exists) and have never been able to get such a lustrous opaque colour. They were inexpensive so must have had Barium in them.
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:11 PM
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Re: Barium in Cadmiums

Quote:
Originally Posted by redgreen
Thanks for the info

Sounds like Barium may not be the culprit.

I'm thinking that the slightly chalky aspect might be the addition of barium but at least they are very opaque. Will stick to theses for a while and try a bit of medium.

I used to have a Cadmium Red Med/Dark in Bellini (which no longer exists) and have never been able to get such a lustrous opaque colour. They were inexpensive so must have had Barium in them.

Yes, the Bellini had barium, and you are correct, that was a beautiful color. You can come close if you take WN Artist grade Cadmium red deep, and add some Grumbacher perelene maroon. Not quite as opaque, but close.
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:03 PM
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Re: Barium in Cadmiums

Thanks about my name:
I even wear a plaid shirt sometimes ha!

Will try Windsor and Newton/Grumbacher trick for red after I get some.

Also have been eying the Kama paints for Cadmiums (dark reds) (no border fees) but haven't read pertinent reviews here (just general).

Also the drying time would take longer as they are made with walnut oil.

I have been using Stevenson and Gamblin paints but miss the Bellini as they seems to have unique characteristics with each tube.
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