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Old 02-20-2012, 08:19 AM
Mythrill Mythrill is offline
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Re: Is it possible to get a hue close to "Mars" Burnt Sienna (PY101)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
Folks, why do you mix an orange burnt sienna color with a lot of paints (blue, magenta, green)?
First, we need 1 good transparent orange and 1 good transparent black. I guess, Perinone Orange PO43 + Gas Black (Lamp Black). Mix them first and then try to correct resulting hue with other translucent paints if necessary!

Yeah, I talked about Perylene Orange and Mars Black, but Perinone Orange also seems like a suitable mix. The problem is that is very pricey compared to the original color, so the mix is not worth the price (assuming an orange pigment + black will work as expected). Mars colors are very, very cheap to produce and, as a result, to buy. The only problem here is that if I want an artist-grade color, the only brands in my country are Windsor & Newton and Amsterdam, which I have to buy through the internet. Corfix does have "Transparent Iron Oxide" in acrylics too ("Mars" Sienna?) But I have to see if it behaves like its oil counterpart and if it's matches W&N's finish.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:24 AM
Mythrill Mythrill is offline
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Re: Is it possible to get a hue close to "Mars" Burnt Sienna (PY101)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
Folks, why do you mix an orange burnt sienna color with a lot of paints (blue, magenta, green)?
First, we need 1 good transparent orange and 1 good transparent black. I guess, Perinone Orange PO43 + Gas Black (Lamp Black). Mix them first and then try to correct resulting hue with other translucent paints if necessary!

I have PO13 tube only (not lightfast and enough translucent) but it looks very close to my Burnt Sienna mixed with finest particle size carbon black.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
Folks, why do you mix an orange burnt sienna color with a lot of paints (blue, magenta, green)?
First, we need 1 good transparent orange and 1 good transparent black. I guess, Perinone Orange PO43 + Gas Black (Lamp Black). Mix them first and then try to correct resulting hue with other translucent paints if necessary!

Yeah, I talked about Perylene Orange and Mars Black, but Perinone Orange also seems like a suitable mix. The problem is that is very pricey compared to the original color, so the mix is not worth the price (assuming an orange pigment + black will work as expected). Mars colors are very, very cheap to produce and, as a result, to buy. The only problem here is that if I want an artist-grade color, the only brands in my country are Windsor & Newton and Amsterdam Standard, which I have to buy through the internet. Corfix does have a "Transparent Iron Oxide" in acrylics too ("Mars" Sienna?) But I have to see if it behaves like its oil counterpart and if it's matches W&N's finish.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:33 AM
sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is online now
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Re: Is it possible to get a hue close to "Mars" Burnt Sienna (PY101)?

i have winsor newton galeria burnt sienna pr101, but pr101 variations are so wide that in different brands they will have entirely different masstone, undertones, transparency, etc.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:26 AM
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Gigalot Gigalot is offline
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Re: Is it possible to get a hue close to "Mars" Burnt Sienna (PY101)?

Corfix is well known Brazilian brand but I have newer seen color swatches or colour chart.

Mythrill, translucent iron oxides paints are not cheap here in our country and seems to be twice more expensive than Titanium white, Yellow ocher.. e.t.c.

Last edited by Gigalot : 02-20-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:36 AM
Mythrill Mythrill is offline
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Re: Is it possible to get a hue close to "Mars" Burnt Sienna (PY101)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
Corfix is well known Brazilian brand but I have newer seen color swatches or colour chart.

Mythrill, translucent iron oxides paints are not cheap here in our country and seems to be twice more expensive than Titanium white, Yellow ocher.. e.t.c.

That's strange. From what country are you from? Iron oxides (PR101) tend to be cheap because they can be produced without using earth – all you need is iron and then oxidize it. Windsor & Newton itself places "Mars" Sienna in Group 1 – the cheapest. The same goes for Corfix Transparent Red Iron Oxide / "Mars" Sienna, which is group 1 (Oils).
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:26 AM
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Gigalot Gigalot is offline
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Re: Is it possible to get a hue close to "Mars" Burnt Sienna (PY101)?

I meant, translucent forms of Iron Oxide, both - PY42tr and PY101tr (in oil) are not cheap. You can see for example:
http://www.dickblick.com/products/ma...ro-oil-colors/
which is 1,5 times more expensive in transparent form than opaque

Maimery is popular brand here in Tbilisi.

Another popular brand http://www.koh-i-noor.cz/en/art-club...ve-barvy-praha
are about 1,8 times more expensive if translucent oxides.

However, common opaque PR101 like English Red, Caput-Mortuum, and also Mars Black Pbk11 are cheap!
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Old 02-20-2012, 04:45 PM
Mythrill Mythrill is offline
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Re: Is it possible to get a hue close to "Mars" Burnt Sienna (PY101)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
I meant, translucent forms of Iron Oxide, both - PY42tr and PY101tr (in oil) are not cheap. You can see for example:
http://www.dickblick.com/products/ma...ro-oil-colors/
which is 1,5 times more expensive in transparent form than opaque

Maimery is popular brand here in Tbilisi.

Another popular brand http://www.koh-i-noor.cz/en/art-club...ve-barvy-praha
are about 1,8 times more expensive if translucent oxides.

However, common opaque PR101 like English Red, Caput-Mortuum, and also Mars Black Pbk11 are cheap!

Since you are an oil painter, have you considered buying iron oxide powder and mixing it yourself? Contrary to many paints, you can get high-quality iron oxides (PR101, in particular) even from chinese manufacturers.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:36 AM
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Gigalot Gigalot is offline
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Re: Is it possible to get a hue close to "Mars" Burnt Sienna (PY101)?

We talked about Chinese paints with Chinese painter here on WC. He said there are two trusted Brands in China: one is W&N and the second is Shanghai Siic Maries I have 6-7 tubes.
White and Iron oxides are perfect and less expensive. Other colours are non-yellowish, slightly less pigmented, a bit waxy (better to work with palette knife) and dries slow (~6-10 days). But I love slow drying paints!

Some pigments we can prepare at home and often use Vine black, powdered Red Iron Stone and transparent brown earth which I found on the hill near my house. Last pigment is my favorite!
I am natural colored earth fun.

Last edited by Gigalot : 02-21-2012 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:52 PM
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querin querin is offline
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Re: Is it possible to get a hue close to "Mars" Burnt Sienna (PY101)?

One can create a transparent black with Pthalo Green and Perm alizarin crimson or a quin red mix to a neutral color not too green or too red.
I use this transparent in watercolor also and oils.When mixed with other hues I don't create mud. Pr 101 can be a transparent or an opaque this pigment is used to create other hues.
querin
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:17 PM
Mythrill Mythrill is offline
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Re: Is it possible to get a hue close to "Mars" Burnt Sienna (PY101)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by querin
One can create a transparent black with Pthalo Green and Perm alizarin crimson or a quin red mix to a neutral color not too green or too red.
I use this transparent in watercolor also and oils.When mixed with other hues I don't create mud. Pr 101 can be a transparent or an opaque this pigment is used to create other hues.
querin

Querin, the artificial counterpart of Mars Sienna (PR101) is usually transparent, and ranges from a brownish, high chroma color. The undertone, however, is a bright earth-orange. That's where it shines: I can create a powerful, earth-like orange by adding red to the orange dilutions, making a more powerful version of Raw Umber (PBr6) by mixing it with PR101, or depending on the proportions, something that resembles Burnt Umber. I worked around my problem using another brand of Transparent Red Iron Oxide (also PR101), which has an red masstone instead of brown, but also has orange, high chroma tints.

The opaque version... I just don't think it is as versatile. It might be a good color for portraits, but the transparent version also is. I have both versions, and I still have to explore the properties of the opaque version of opaque PR101 (mine is an earth-like red as well), so I'm not sure of what it can fully achieve.

Last edited by Mythrill : 03-23-2012 at 08:24 PM.
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