Art Supply Addicts Anonymous for 2012 - Page 16

gakinme · #**226** 06-26-2012, 11:17 PM

Candace, in my set of Derwent Graphitint, after I elminated all the fugitive colors, (anything less than 6), I lost 3 reds and only had 1 red left, and the saddest is that I lost my most useful color deep indigo. Having said that, Graphitint has better lightfastness in proportion than Derwent watercolor and Inktense 24 pc set.

As for Derwent Drawing set, the only reason one wants it is because they want to draw animals. It has way too many earth colors of browns of different variations. Not watersoluble but not waterproof either. Like all colored pencils, it could dissolve somewhat if you apply a wet brush but only a smudging type of color and not mixing like watercolor pencil. It's like putting water to normal pencil drawing, sometimes it smudges.

Put solvent to it to dissolve.

Dragoon, thank you so much for the comprehensive tests. I noticed that of Stadtler too, that it's nowhere smooth like Hi-Uni. Hi-Uni is my favorite soft pencil so far. Wolff carbon may be dark and some oil based pencils may have no sheen but you need a bit more pressure to push things around. It doesn't surprise me that Derwent seems gritty. I bought a sketching set a year ago and gave it away quickly because it's exactly that, very gritty.

Rebecca, no hurry in buying a full set of Neo's. Play with your 15 pc set first. You could do a lot with 15 colors! It's very cumbersome to carry a huge set outdoors.

mij · #**227** 07-05-2012, 12:07 PM

Sandra I got the Derwent drawing set to enable me to do the 3part harmony portraits - not realizing that they had changed the colours and had to get the sanguine and sepia as stock items.

Candace that must have been annoying to find so many fugitives in your set. It doesn't really matter to me as my work will hardly be worth saving for posterity

Oooh got me a Castagnet a Zbukvic and a Hazel Soan DVD of which the 1st two arrived today - having only ordered them online yesterday morning.
Aren't they good! Wow.
Better watch them again methinks

If only some of it would rub off onto me. I'd willingly buy some new non-fugitive colours

.
jim

CandAlArt · #**228** 07-06-2012, 06:24 PM

hey- free shipping today at Dick Blick for only $50 worth of stuff!! Tempting!!??

CandAlArt · #**229** 07-06-2012, 07:00 PM

Dragoon and Gakinme-- You were into some charts of blackest graphite here recently- have you heard of Pacific Arc Watersoluble Graphite?

Can hardly find the company on Google but Hobby Lobby just started selling this- it is 3 big fat sticks, 7/16 inch by 4 3/4 inch, shaped like crayolas with a paper wrapper. 8B, 10B and 12B!! Never heard of such "big B's"

I had to try it. Just a few dollars with a 40% coupon (of course). Really interesting, marks feel waxy going on the paper, and totally inky black with waterbrush applied. They don't smudge with a stump or fingers like regular drawing pencils, too waxy. But very fun. Watercolor paper was too rough to enjoy the sketching part, but they worked well on smooth, heavyweight various drawing papers that can take a bit of wash, like Canson Mix Media, and the smooth side of Mi-Teintes. Looks a lot like your Chinese brush style work Sandra (which I admire very much). If you love super black in graphite, check it out!

gakinme · #**230** 07-08-2012, 09:25 AM

Jim, how could they possibly take out sanguine and sepia, the most important colors, from the set. LOL. But then you probably get two more reddish brown of some sort there so no harm done.

Candace, any photo of what your product and your experiment looks like? I couldn't find any listings on google either.

Dragoon · #**231** 07-08-2012, 03:59 PM

Hello Candace
Thanks for posting about your sticks, but it raises some questions...

Graphite isn't black. It is gray.
Graphite pencils are a mix of graphite (a soft substance) and clay (a hard one). The "B" designations are for ratios of graphite to clay, resulting in pencils that feel softer as the numbers get larger (more pure grahite, -which is gray!)

The color doesn't change to black unless you introduce powdered inks or carbon.
Then it would be a mixed media stick, like the graphitint, which are graphite mixed with powdered inks.

There's nothing wrong with mixed media artwork, but I want to know what I have in my hands...I enjoy the silvery look of pure graphite artwork, and would hate to ruin a piece with so-called 'pencils' (like the Staedtler Mars) that have carbon powder snuck into them...
D.

mij · #**232** 07-08-2012, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gakinme

Jim, how could they possibly take out sanguine and sepia, the most important colors, from the set. LOL. But then you probably get two more reddish brown of some sort there so no harm done.

I didn't get the full drawing set but that was what I thought I was getting It was advertised as a

24 piece drawing set and I assumed 24 pencils

which included only 5 brown/earth colours. Brown ochre, terracotta , mars violet, chocolate and ruby earth. It had 2 blues, a green, a wheat, a grey, a light sienna, an ivory black and a chinese white.
There are also 8 sticks of colours. an eraser and a pencil sharpener.

I suppose it's all in the learning curve.......
jim

CandAlArt · #**233** 07-08-2012, 07:56 PM

Well, the pencil chart posted here recently was showing the different "blacknesses" of pencil brands. "Black is black" to me, and a water brush washes it thinner into levels of gray. Black is dark gray... I guess I just don't get what you are talking about??? 12B looks like black ink to me! Dry, it looks and feels almost like a black Crayola going on. I noticed a similar draggy or waxy feel to the lay-down of General 9XXB also. Is that feel a clue to added carbon? (I will reread your post Dragoon to see why you don't want the mix.)

The package reads: "Pacific Arc Water Soluble Graphite Sticks are made from high quality graphite..." If there are additives it does not state it.

www.pacificarc.us & other googles don't even have it listed, only their regular graphite products. A Texas company, but package shows "made in China" --Sorry Sandra!

Odd they sell a product you can't find anywhere but my store!!

CandAlArt · #**234** 07-08-2012, 09:19 PM

DH is uploading a very amatuer pic I took of the new product & a sketch! Soon!!

I am a photog' who only uses the "automatic" setting, LOL... We shall see...

CandAlArt · #**235** 07-08-2012, 10:35 PM

Let's try this... Love this 12B Graphite Stick! Pacific Arc 3 pack, found -so far- only at Hobby Lobby in the US. Not even online. $6.99 (use a coupon too).

I am not a good photog' but you can get the idea. Lamplight sucked the white out of the paper. On the left in the Strath 400 (5.5x8.5) Sketch is a blob-tree test

of 8B, 10B, 12B, left to right. To my eye not a lot of difference, but I do not have a real color/tone discerning eye as many artists do. The girl & dog howling at the moon is all 12B, on Canson Mix Media 9x12, 98 lb., with bits of waterbrush applied. The yellow moon is Reeves water soluble wax pastels. (I draw this picture over & over, different angles. What psycho meaning is there in that?

)

gakinme · #**236** 07-08-2012, 10:56 PM

Jim, so you got the drawing collection just like I did. Previously, I had a 24 pencil drawing set and I swapped it with Robert. Make sure you scrape a bit of the wax off the sticks so they lay down color a bit easier. It took me a half year to find out. Would love to see your 3 part harmony pix one day when you are finished.

Candace, thank you for the pix of product and experiment. It does look very black from my screeen. The shape is like Lyra Watersoluble graphite but Lyra when washed is still gray. Yours definitely looks totally ink black which reminds me of Stabilo all surface watersoluble black pencil. I suppose one could even use it like a watersoluable palette. Interesting product. But since it's made in China, I'll pass.

Howling wolf and full moon. You must be missing the Southwest terrain, Candace.

CandAlArt · #**237** 07-09-2012, 12:16 AM

Thanks Sandra. So many products are made in China. I do like to learn about others. To my knowledge, General-Kimberly pencil company is all American made, and Strathmore papers too. Some packaging is deceptive showing an American brand name & address & in tiny print the item actually is "made in China." hmmph.

Was it you who said you do not trust the non-toxic labels sometimes? Even makes you wonder about the clothes we buy, if the dyes are non-toxic...

Dragoon · #**238** 07-09-2012, 09:36 PM

Hi Candace!
I'm sorry if you took offense, none was meant! I'm sorry!

I'm glad you're enjoying the watersolubles, and yes, the black does add punch to sketches.

I can see why they would add stuff to their pencils, and maybe why people would enjoy them that way...nothing wrong with having two colors in a tin...but when it's my money, I'd like to make an informed purchase. That's part of the fun of shopping for art supplies!

Then I can decide if I want all-graphite (gray only), or graphite and carbon (gray and black) pencils...

True addicts will want to own ALL the pencils...

D.

gakinme · #**239** 07-09-2012, 10:09 PM

Yep, that was me who distrusts stuff made in China. I bought chopping boards in Ikea made in China before and one slice, the plastic peels off and stick to my bread. Oivay. Then T-shirts lose shape and fade quicker than Made in USA or Made in Japan. Backpacks fall apart after 2 months!!! Oi...the extra time and money I had to put in to replace products.

Now whenever possible, I buy name brand and if there is any US made ones, I try to buy US products.

I have never seen a 12 B before. The darkest I have is 9xxb. Makes me wonder too if that is pure graphite when it's so absolutely ink dark. They might have put ash in it.

CandAlArt · #**240** 07-10-2012, 12:11 AM

No offense taken Dragoon! I just never thought about differenciating between gray/black before. I studied my samples under a brighter light tonight and could discern the gray vs black, of course in the thin & wash applications. Not much if any shine to the 12B so it may have additives. Sandra suggested ash, interesting. It really is crayon-like before washing and inky in the thickest places. So you say carbon and charcoal are true blacks? I should train my eye to see these things better.

I have ordinary (+ glasses) vision, but I know individuals perceive colors differently. I do not feel that I can see the difference between cheaper low pigment paints and higher quality, when I have tried recently. That's why I should stick to black and gray pencils! LOL!

Yes I am one who has to have ALL the pencils

that is what drove me to try these out! I love the Carbon Sketch, tho' it is a bit scratchy sometimes, and charcoal pencils (cleaner than sticks) -especially Prismacolor charcoal. They DO look blacker to me than other charcoal sticks, and feel different. Are either of you familiar with them?

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