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  #46   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-14-2019, 03:04 AM
3igAnt 3igAnt is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

Maybe yes he used something similar to Bob Ross method. But over a largle are wet on wet in layers and that much smooth effects. I really do not know. I think it will always remain mysterious. But I suspect that he used a fast drying medium, which made him to attain thousands of paintings.

Is there any histric evidance that artist of his era used such fast drying chemical as you suggest lead or manganase solution?

Last edited by 3igAnt : 06-14-2019 at 03:11 AM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 03:21 AM
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Gigalot Gigalot is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3igAnt
Is there any histric evidance that artist of his era used such fast drying chemical as you suggest lead or manganase solution?
Courtrai siccative and Haarlem siccative was very common in his era. Some artists used lead acetate solution or lead borate to make siccatives. Roasted with litharge black oil. Also, I have refined sun-bleached linseed oil made from regular Nevskaya Palitra oil and it dries over night. No siccative needed!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show....php?t=1377373
Look at the page 125:
https://archive.org/details/chemistr...0chur/page/124

Last edited by Gigalot : 06-14-2019 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 05:21 AM
3igAnt 3igAnt is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
Courtrai siccative and Haarlem siccative was very common in his era. Some artists used lead acetate solution or lead borate to make siccatives. Roasted with litharge black oil. Also, I have refined sun-bleached linseed oil made from regular Nevskaya Palitra oil and it dries over night. No siccative needed!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show....php?t=1377373
Look at the page 125:
https://archive.org/details/chemistr...0chur/page/124

Thank you very much Gigalot. I will read it. Maybe will figure out something useful for creating paintings faster and keeping the quality high.
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:25 AM
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Gigalot Gigalot is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

The preparation of masic, copal and amber varnishes is on the page 130.
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:57 AM
3igAnt 3igAnt is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
Courtrai siccative and Haarlem siccative was very common in his era. Some artists used lead acetate solution or lead borate to make siccatives. Roasted with litharge black oil. Also, I have refined sun-bleached linseed oil made from regular Nevskaya Palitra oil and it dries over night. No siccative needed!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show....php?t=1377373
Look at the page 125:
https://archive.org/details/chemistr...0chur/page/124


How did you refine sun bleached linseed oil and made it dry over night? I also can do it from any linseed oil?
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:58 AM
3igAnt 3igAnt is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
The preparation of masic, copal and amber varnishes is on the page 130.

Ok I will have a look at it
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:29 AM
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Gigalot Gigalot is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3igAnt
How did you refine sun bleached linseed oil and made it dry over night? I also can do it from any linseed oil?
I use already refined linseed oil for that. Pour 125 ml oil in 1 L plastic bottle and put it horizontally on the sun lit place. Rotate once a day, wait a month and it will be fine. Keep this bottle opened for oil oxidation.

Last edited by Gigalot : 06-14-2019 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:50 AM
3igAnt 3igAnt is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

The bottle must be kept open while under the sun or after the 1 month period should I keep it open?
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Old 06-14-2019, 03:09 PM
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Gigalot Gigalot is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3igAnt
The bottle must be kept open while under the sun or after the 1 month period should I keep it open?
After one month pour oil to it's original bottle and keep it close!
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Old 06-14-2019, 05:30 PM
3igAnt 3igAnt is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

I understand ok thank you

By the way, tonight I tried yellow ochre underlayer aproach and tried to paint blue color sea over top of it. It did not work for me. I wiped off all the canvas. It is a very small canvas.

Well I understood that for me sea is best painted by using wet on wet method. I am unable to paint sea in layers.

Tomorrow I will repaint a sea using wet on wet painting method.

But for the portrait painting, layered methods like the flemish technique works best for me.

And this maimeri artist grade zinc white is so powerful IMO. Even stronger than the student grade titanium white. But one problem it has is, there are particules in it. How ever I can easly mix them in to the paint with a palette knife. What are they? Particules of pigment?

Last edited by 3igAnt : 06-14-2019 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 06-15-2019, 01:20 AM
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Gigalot Gigalot is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD6Rv0H8Spk
Клапоух Юрий. He did yellow underlayer to copy seascape painting.
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:35 AM
3igAnt 3igAnt is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

Yes I watched it before. And here Игорь Сахаров copies the same painting without any underlayer. I do not know which method is closer to the real method of the great master of Aivazovsky. From my point of view both of the reproductions are really far away from the orginal painting of Aivazovsky in terms of the effects he attained. But I think Клапоух captured it better.

https://youtu.be/A1lIOljkGME

I have a new idea about the paintings of Aivazovsky. Would it be possible that he used watercolor in the first layers of the process (since ofcourse at his time there was no acrilic.) Watercolor gets dry fast and on top of he painted with oils. Just an idea

Last edited by 3igAnt : 06-15-2019 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:41 AM
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Gigalot Gigalot is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3igAnt
I have a new idea about the paintings of Aivazovsky. Would it be possible that he used watercolor in the first layers of the process (since ofcourse at his time there was no acrilic.) Watercolor gets dry fast and on top of he painted with oils. Just an idea
Not sure. He used very flexible primed large size canvases. Oil primed or emulsion primed.. Watercolor is OK on traditional Glue+chalk gesso but poorly performs on oil contains primers.
May be he used thin wash of fast drying oil paint first and then let it dry during short period of time to prevent solubility in upper layer of oil paint. Several hours is enough to fix thin wash of oil paint. Underllayer is truly visible on his paintings. Bouguereau also worked very quickly, but he also did visible layers in his paintings. That do not means Bouguereau worked in alla-prima. He just worked quickly. Layered technique gives color richness that alla-prima can't match.
In the other hand, Aivazovsky always painted sky first. When he painted sky in true alla-prima, he can also wait until underlayer of water dries.

Last edited by Gigalot : 06-15-2019 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 06-15-2019, 01:02 PM
3igAnt 3igAnt is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
Not sure. He used very flexible primed large size canvases. Oil primed or emulsion primed.. Watercolor is OK on traditional Glue+chalk gesso but poorly performs on oil contains primers.
May be he used thin wash of fast drying oil paint first and then let it dry during short period of time to prevent solubility in upper layer of oil paint. Several hours is enough to fix thin wash of oil paint. Underllayer is truly visible on his paintings. Bouguereau also worked very quickly, but he also did visible layers in his paintings. That do not means Bouguereau worked in alla-prima. He just worked quickly. Layered technique gives color richness that alla-prima can't match.
In the other hand, Aivazovsky always painted sky first. When he painted sky in true alla-prima, he can also wait until underlayer of water dries.

What is an emulsion?

Maybe like you say he used a very thin underlayer wash and when its dry he worked on top of it. Another option would be to organize large amount of paintings in a row would be, painting underlayers of several paintings in a row and than start to paint the actual color layers starting from the first one a few days later. During the process other paintings underlayers will be drying. And keep the cycle like that.

Yes I also read that he painted the sky first and than the sea. So you suggest that, he painted the sky in alla-prima and only the sea in layered method?

Do you think that he developed his method of painting or he learned all that at the art school?

And yes Bouguereau used layered method. His work is amazing.

Why todays artist cannot produce art like them?
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:18 PM
Michael Lion Michael Lion is offline
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Re: Artist vs Student Grade Paints

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3igAnt
And yes Bouguereau used layered method. His work is amazing.

Why todays artist cannot produce art like them?

Because it would be a lot of work and require lots of skill, to create art that would just be looked down upon as kitsch junk by high-end art collectors and galleries.

Bouguereau-style paintings wouldn't even perform well on Instagram.

Last edited by Michael Lion : 06-15-2019 at 03:26 PM.
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