WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > Explore Media > Oil Painting
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-28-2012, 02:42 AM
mariposa-art's Avatar
mariposa-art mariposa-art is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,880
 
Hails from United States
Re: Zero ventilation, oil painting safety?

I use Liquin all the time, and it smells. Not horrifically for me, but it smells. (I am not bothered by most of these oil paint smells, and linseed actually brings back lovely memories of learning how to paint when I was a kid.) I don't know what W&N is smoking, that they can claim it has no smell.
Reply With Quote
  #62   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-28-2012, 05:35 AM
DaveGhmn DaveGhmn is offline
Enthusiast
Framingham (Boston) MA
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,279
 
Hails from United States
Re: Zero ventilation, oil painting safety?

Paintinglover, it was Rembrandt's way of saying, "Don't view my paintings from close up. They are meant to be seen from a certain distance." The painterly style of his later works did not elicit gushing praise from most of the established critics of the day. They were more used to the highly realistic painting of R's contemporaries.

Meanwhile, are you within reach of an art store that carries oils? If so, the store will carry Liquin. Unscrew a cap and check the odor ON THE CAP. Odors are not something fully describable via the Internet.

(I'm sure that Sid will tell you to check the odor of a substance the way chemists do, from its cap. This prevents over-exposure and greatly reduces the possibility of spilling or insufflating the substance.)

The WN Artisan (water-mixable) impasto medium has only a slight chemically-linseedy odor.

Impasto medium is just a thickener. It's probable that the people at Kremer Pigments could give you formulas for making your own out of substances whose odor you can withstand: http://kremerpigments.com/
__________________
Judging a Manet from the point of view of Bouguereau, the Manet has not been finished. Judging a Bouguereau from the point of view of Manet, the Bouguereau has not been begun.
--Robert Henri, The Art Spirit

Reply With Quote
  #63   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-28-2012, 06:43 AM
sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is offline
WC! Guide
Maryland, USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,902
 
Hails from United States
Re: Zero ventilation, oil painting safety?

Quote:
I'm sure that Sid will tell you to check the odor of a substance the way chemists do, from its cap.
yeah, I was taught to open the bottle or jar at arms length away and then wave your hand over the lid to gently fan some of the nasty towards your olfactories, then you can creep up on it depending upon the severity of the stench.
Reply With Quote
  #64   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-28-2012, 03:01 PM
Paintinglover Paintinglover is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 121
 
Re: Zero ventilation, oil painting safety?

Thank you everyone again!

I am actually not near an art store currently, because of the moving (we're moving houses now) but I will be when we are settled, and I'll go check that out.

Thank you so much for the link! It's a fantastic website! I will get in contact with them and see what to do. Do you like their service? Are you happy with them? And their products? Are they easy to work with? (the company I mean)

I think finding a way to make a fast drying medium with a mild smell really might be the best solution for me, thank you so much for bringing that idea. I think it might be good for anyone who wants to manipulate oils in certain manners, like here, fast drying and impasto, and that is sensitive to smell.

I just hope a "miracle" product like that can be a reality.

If it works out, I'll be sure to recommend it. Or if anyone here has done it, custom make a medium that serves their needs but barely or doesn't smell,
and it's worked out for them, please post!
Reply With Quote
  #65   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-28-2012, 03:43 PM
karenlee's Avatar
karenlee karenlee is offline
Lord of the Arts
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,522
 
Hails from United States
Re: Zero ventilation, oil painting safety?

I'm just catching up on this thread and I find it surprising that Winsor & Newton claim Liquin has little odor. I would say their statement is a self-serving falsehood. I have had the experience that sometimes "well qualified" authorities are the poorest judges and my plebian friends and I make much wiser and more realistic judgements.
Reply With Quote
  #66   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:09 PM
DaveGhmn DaveGhmn is offline
Enthusiast
Framingham (Boston) MA
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,279
 
Hails from United States
Re: Zero ventilation, oil painting safety?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintinglover
....
Thank you so much for the link! It's a fantastic website! I will get in contact with them and see what to do. Do you like their service? Are you happy with them? And their products? Are they easy to work with? (the company I mean)

Kremer is comprehensive, and don't miss the English version of Kremer International, http://kremer-pigmente.de/en

My only order to them was a long time ago and they were prompt and very accurate. There was a period when the NY store was a little rocky, but it has been taken over by the parent corporation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintinglover
I think finding a way to make a fast drying medium with a mild smell

Actually, I was thinking more of an impasto medium, rather than fast-dry.

George O'Hanlon of Natural Pigments has a fairly comprehensive article on driers for oil paint here: http://www.naturalpigments.com/vb/sh...r-Oil-Painting

I don't know that Natural Pigments sells any of these by themselves or even if they exist in a form that's easily mixed. Cobalt driers of either artist grade or hardware grade (you can still get it at the US big-box home improvement store, Lowe's, last I looked) comes in a thick hydrocarbon liquid form.

Probably O'Hanlon could tell you, or your could join the Natural Pigments forum and ask whether you can formulate an oil paint drier without using turpentine or other hydrocarbon solvent. http://www.naturalpigments.com/vb/forum.php

O'Hanlon in another article on their own pre-mixed mediums gives many details on what is in THICKENERs (impasto mediums) -- not DRIERS -- and mentions one I forgot about, bentonite clay. You can get it at a ceramic supply house. If you're using water-mixable oils, bentonite + water makes an unbelievable gel that's only slightly tan in color. It smells only like wet clay... but don't sniff it until you mix it with water -- it is sub-microscopic in size and the dry powder is dangerous to breathe -- so use a good dust mask if you go this route.
__________________
Judging a Manet from the point of view of Bouguereau, the Manet has not been finished. Judging a Bouguereau from the point of view of Manet, the Bouguereau has not been begun.
--Robert Henri, The Art Spirit

Reply With Quote
  #67   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-28-2012, 05:08 PM
crafor crafor is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,733
 
Re: Zero ventilation, oil painting safety?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGhmn
There are characteristic odors to all the WMOs. There is always a hint of surfactant -- for comparison, next time you're in the supermarket, take a whiff of any fragrance-free laundry detergent. Some have a slight ether-like odor (from the surfactant 2-butoxyethanol).
I'm severely chemically sensitive, and buy fragrance free products. The only detergent I can tolerate so far is Seventh Generation. I've tried a few others and have had to return them. It's not only fragrance chemicals that have odors and cause health problems, but they (fragrance chemicals)do a lot of damage, as do many of the non fragranced. Some products advertised as free of fragrances have masking chemicals to cover over the fragrances, so they are there anyway.



Quote:
WN Artisan Fast Dry Medium has a sharp-ish odor, but nowhere near as choking as WN Liquin Original. There is, however, no solvent listed in the product's MSDS.
MSDS sheets describe ONE chemical. They DO NOT include other chemicals. What you are looking at at http://www.winsornewton.com/assets/H...l/04412222.pdf is a product safety sheet, not an MSDS. and if you go to section 16, it says
RISK PHRASES IN FULL
R20/21/22 Harmful by inhalation, in contact with skin and if swallowed.
R22 Harmful if swallowed.
R52/53 Harmful to aquatic organisms, may cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment.
R65 Harmful: may cause lung damage if swallowed.
R36/38 Irritating to eyes and skin.
R37 Irritating to respiratory system.
R38 Irritating to skin.
R43 May cause sensitisation by skin contact.
R66 Repeated exposure may cause skin dryness or cracking.

You don't have to have a solvent to have problems.
Here's part of the MSDS for one of the ingredients:
2-amino-2-methylpropan-1-ol at http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/82059.htm

EMERGENCY OVERVIEW</STRONG>
Appearance: clear, colorless solid or liquid. Flash Point: 67 deg C. Causes eye and skin irritation. May cause respiratory and digestive tract irritation. Warning! Combustible liquid and vapor.
Target Organs: Eyes, skin.


Potential Health Effects
Eye: Causes eye irritation.
Skin: Causes skin irritation.
Ingestion: May cause gastrointestinal irritation with nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Expected to be a low ingestion hazard.
Inhalation: May cause respiratory tract irritation. Inhalation may be fatal as a result of spasm, inflammation, edema of the larynx and bronchi, chemical pneumonitis and pulmonary edema.
Chronic: No information found.

Eyes: Flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes, occasionally lifting the upper and lower eyelids. Get medical aid.
Skin: Get medical aid. Flush skin with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes while removing contaminated clothing and shoes. Wash clothing before reuse.
Ingestion: Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Get medical aid. Do NOT induce vomiting. If conscious and alert, rinse mouth and drink 2-4 cupfuls of milk or water. Wash mouth out with water.
Inhalation: Remove from exposure and move to fresh air immediately. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. Get medical aid.
Notes to Physician: Treat symptomatically and supportively.

That product safety sheet lists 3 other ingredients. Google the MSDS for those other ingredients for a better understanding of the product and known hazards.
Quote:
Berlin Quick-Dry medium is an acrylic dispersion and smells exactly like every other acrylic paint out there, including "latex" house paint. If it has a down side, it is the fact that when mixed into WMO, the WMO sets within 15 minutes and becomes un-brush-able... in other words, TOO quick-dry for much more than underpainting.

WN Artisan impasto medium -- very slight odor, kind of a chemically-linseedy, almost unnoticeable.
Please remember that chemicals affect different people indifferent ways, and at different times, different amounts, even, under differing circumstances. You might not be affected by an open cup of one of those products, whereas a whiff may do someone else in.
Crafor
Reply With Quote
  #68   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-28-2012, 05:24 PM
crafor crafor is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,733
 
Re: Zero ventilation, oil painting safety?

I need to add that the reactions that some folks have to some chemicals--respiratory, headaches, nausea, dizziness, irritability, and many, many others are NOT allergic reactions. They are the known and expected reactions to that particular chemical.

Allergic reactions are historically respiratory and skin, as rashes and hives, drying cracking skin, etc.

Some other known and expected reactions to common chemicals include dryness of the mouth and throat; dizziness, nausea, incoordination, slurred speech, drowsiness, and, in severe exposures, coma." "Acts primarily as a central nervous system (CNS) depressant." Narcotic. Sensitizer. "Local anesthetic, CNS depressant" ... "irritation to the mouth, throat, eyes, skin, lungs, and GI tract causing nausea and abdominal pain." "May cause kidney damage." "Do not use with contact lenses loss of bladder control, sexual dysfunction etc, and many more.

Please do not confuse MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEETS with PRODUCT SAFETY SHEETS. They are not the same. In fact, if you are looking at an MSDS from the manufacturers information research it further for more information.

Crafor
Reply With Quote
  #69   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-28-2012, 06:28 PM
DaveGhmn DaveGhmn is offline
Enthusiast
Framingham (Boston) MA
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,279
 
Hails from United States
Re: Zero ventilation, oil painting safety?

Thanks, Crafor. What is the "Product Safety Sheet?" Is that a UK-required document? It's clearly far more forthcoming than the US MSDS.

EDIT: ah, I see. I never noticed the US Flag at the top of the WN site. Apparently the site assigned me to the US based on my computer settings.

When I click on the UK flag and move to the UK site, these far more detailed sheets become available.

Thanks once again - a very valuable heads-up. I'll look for these among all the products I use that are sold in the UK.
__________________
Judging a Manet from the point of view of Bouguereau, the Manet has not been finished. Judging a Bouguereau from the point of view of Manet, the Bouguereau has not been begun.
--Robert Henri, The Art Spirit


Last edited by DaveGhmn : 02-28-2012 at 06:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #70   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-28-2012, 06:34 PM
Trond Trond is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 864
 
Re: Zero ventilation, oil painting safety?

Just thought I should add:

W&N also makes fast-drying poppy oil (poppy oil with siccatives added). Never tried it though.
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:04 PM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.