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  • #990686
    Aderynglas
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        I decided to make a chart of W&N colours and their pigments today and got a nasty surprise.

        Their New Gamboge now is made from PY150,PR209 instead of PY153 – as is their Indian Yellow :mad:

        Luckily I have quite a bit of it left, but I will now have to find another source as using a mix of colours is just going to lead to mud .

        Just goes to show, reading the labels is as important when buying paint as it is when buying food …

        #1183429
        M.L. Schaefer
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            W/N New Gamboge, one of my all time favorite mixing colors. I do have some left in the tube as well….but Members definitely need to exchange notes on replacement mixing colors, because I KNOW we are not the only ones that are flabbergasted! WHY would they do that!!!!????

            I have some Da Vinci Hansa Yellow Deep (a transparent PY65) I love it for mixing, but it absolutely does not compare to New Gamboge, and will also be looking for a replacement color…I guess look through the charts and see what other PY153s are available! I am so shocked! I mean, I use it for making olives, all kinds of greens…..WHAT ARE THEY THINKING :evil:

            Margarete

            When he, the Spirit of truth is come...he will be your Guide... Holy Bible (Old and New Testament)
            Under the Concrete are Flowers Yet to be Born...from a Chilean Poem

            #1183483
            virgil carter
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                A wrote, “…using a mix of colours is just going to lead to mud…”

                Well, not necessarily. It all depends on what it’s mixed with, how its mixed and applied (in the palette, on the paper, glazes, etc.) and whether or not it’s fussed with once applied or left alone to mix, mingle and dry by itself.

                Of course, there’s an old saying that may still be useful: “if one can get the desired effect with two paints, do so”. It can be risky using multiple paints (with multiple pigments).

                Then again, many if not most watercolor applications can be corrected if it’s done while the paint is fresh and wet. Once dried, corrections may be challenging.

                sling paint,
                Virgil

                Sling paint,
                Virgil Carter
                http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

                #1183473
                Marcio C
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                    Yes,I ordered New Gamboge from DS on the last order.It is still PY153 on it’s own

                    I like the New Gamboge from Daniel Smith, PY153

                    #1183476
                    charliez
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                        A few years ago M Graham changed Gamboge from PY110 to PY151/PO62. Obviously it is an orange gamboge. Indian yellow is still made with PY110.

                        Carlos
                        C & C welcomed & appreciated!
                        WC Theory: handprint.com

                        #1183430
                        M.L. Schaefer
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                            Thank you, Larry, Carlos, Marcio! I guess D/S is going to have a huge spike in sales of New Gamboge.

                            Ah, Virgil, imagine if you will, one of your favorite colors (which hardly anyone makes) will no longer be available! Crisis time! Me, I’m a bit hardheaded, I would rather buy D/S than “see” if the Winsor Newton mix is the same. Maybe if someone sent me a dot, I may change my mind…but the PY53 has a look and glow all its own.

                            :heart: Margarete

                            When he, the Spirit of truth is come...he will be your Guide... Holy Bible (Old and New Testament)
                            Under the Concrete are Flowers Yet to be Born...from a Chilean Poem

                            #1183418
                            Aderynglas
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                                Thing is, a mixture is unlikely to handle in mixes exactly like the original single pigment paint. And I don’t want to get caught out having to relearn how a paint handles.

                                This has implications for professional artists with deadlines, imagine you have a very intricate and accurate painting to complete, you agree a deadline and then discover that the paints you normally use aren’t performing as they should, you have to start again, you have to locate new paints if the ones you have aren’t of any use, you then have the possibility of losing the deadline and your credibility as an artist who can deliver on time. In commercial settings delivering on time and to the standard expected is crucial. It’s the difference between being in work or on welfare.

                                PS. Sennelier Aqurelle has PY153 as Sennelier Yellow Light. This colour used to be PY154?? I have a sample that hasn’t been tried, if it’s the same hue I’ll buy that, I prefer the Sennelier paints to W&N anyway. Their Indian Yellow is PY153,PY154

                                #1183417

                                I don’t know why M. Graham changed their gamboge from a lightfast single pigment to their current mixture. And then, they re-introduced PY110 as Indian Yellow… :confused:

                                With W&N’s new mixture, it’s important to understand the colour bias of each of the pigments. PY150 is a lightfast orange biased yellow while PR209 is an orange biased synthetic red. Mixing with other colours will probably not be a huge issue because both colours in the mix are considered “warm”.

                                I do think that W&N’s Gamboge was always a mixture, however, of PY153+PO62 (a slightly opaque orange)… Perhaps they decided that a more transparent hue was the order of the day.

                                Char --

                                CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

                                #1183419
                                Aderynglas
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                                    The W&N New Gamboge that I have, bought last year, is PY153 a single pigment colour which though warm, is less warm in tints, it’s a wonderful eggyolk yellow in masstone and quite lemony in tints and has a glow to it. I won’t be buying the new mixture, I prefer to use single pigment paints, then I know what I’m getting when I mix my paints ;)

                                    I haven’t checked yet, but I wonder how many other paints have been changed, with the new branding of the tubes?

                                    #1183431
                                    M.L. Schaefer
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                                        Polly, please let us know how the Sennelier compares…(is the new French brand, or the older brand Sennelier?)

                                        Yes, I do have my notebook filled with W/N New Gamboge mixes….:(

                                        Margarete

                                        When he, the Spirit of truth is come...he will be your Guide... Holy Bible (Old and New Testament)
                                        Under the Concrete are Flowers Yet to be Born...from a Chilean Poem

                                        #1183449
                                        sashntash
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                                            On the Winsor & Newton website….. in their Artist’s Watercolours Colour Chart… when I clicked on New Gamboge….. it said this:

                                            “Pigment change: Reformulated due to pigment discontinuation, now closer to genuine Gamboge.”

                                            So… it appears that the change was not arbitrary, they changed it because they can no longer get the other pigment. If they can’t, I would guess that the other manufacturers will also soon be running out…..

                                            Thank you for mentioning the change. I use W&N New Gamboge and love it… I would have just re-ordered automatically without realizing there had been a change.

                                            Also… you mentioned “new branding of the tubes” ….. Please explain… I don’t know what that means ?????

                                            Susan
                                            in beautiful North Carolina
                                            Retired and loving every minute of it !!!
                                            Time to play......

                                            #1183488
                                            Tred
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                                                For what it’s worth Jackson’s http://www.jacksonsart.com/ have their generic brand of watercolour on special 20% off and their Indian Yellow is PY153.
                                                I cannot vouch for them as I have never purchased them before but have an order in now for 4 x 21mil tubes to experiment with. I have no idea as to where Jackson sources their watercolours from but honey is used in the formula.
                                                Cheers
                                                Tred

                                                "When I see a jumble; I paint just that" - John Yardley

                                                #1183420
                                                Aderynglas
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                                                    W&N Rebranding the Tubes watch the header video here[/URL]

                                                    Tred, how do you know that Jackson’s Watercolour Indian Yellow is PY153? I’ve got six of their paints and only found out what they contain when they arrived, where is the info on pigments please? :)

                                                    #1183450
                                                    sashntash
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                                                        W&N Rebranding the Tubes [URL=http://www.winsornewton.com/]watch the header video here[/URL]
                                                        :)

                                                        I see that they have changed the glass bottles for their liquids i.e. linseed oil, varnishes, mediums, etc. and changed the labels to include more information,

                                                        but… I don’t see anything about changing the tubes or labels for their watercolor paints….

                                                        ???

                                                        Also. to reiterate… they changed the formulation of New Gamboge because the pigment they used to use (I think you said PY 153? – I’d have to go downstairs and look at my old tube) has been discontinued.

                                                        So if Winsor & Newton can no longer get PY 153, then the other companies will also run out sooner or later, so I’d stock up :)

                                                        It’s just like Quin Gold – the pigment was discontinued, so W&N’s Quin Gold is now a mixture. Daniel Smith has what is left of the Quin Gold pigment – I think that is PO 49….. But eventually, DS will run out of it too.

                                                        It reinforces your main point – even when we know the pigments in the colors that we are using, we need to re-check periodically because formulations do change. Thanks for starting this thread !!

                                                        Susan
                                                        in beautiful North Carolina
                                                        Retired and loving every minute of it !!!
                                                        Time to play......

                                                        #1183489
                                                        Tred
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                                                            Aderynglas,
                                                            If you have a Jacksons printed catalogue or the online catalogue the pigment numbers are printed underneath the colour swatches in very, very light grey print. I missed them and enquired abour a specific pigment and was told where to look.
                                                            Cheers
                                                            Tred

                                                            "When I see a jumble; I paint just that" - John Yardley

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