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September 14, 2015 at 2:10 pm #993384
I have a question after watching a Mark Carder video on colours.
He suggested you not use any white in your shadow colours?
I paint in layers and on my grey layer I often use various shades of grey for my shadow colours. Which of course have white in them dark layers or how else could I get grey
Am I missing something here?
I know some shadows are darker to the object and some get lighter.Thanks
StewartSeptember 14, 2015 at 2:39 pm #1238297Could be he’s wrong.
But now that I thinkk of it, I don’t use much white in my shadows. Instead use mostly transparent colors which can allow whatever is underneath to come through. But shadows in the distance, for me, usually must have some white in them.
I don’t normally paint in layers, so can’t speak to that.[FONT=Garamond]- Linda .......... [FONT=Garamond]C/C always welcome!
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My website - www.flanaganstudio.comSeptember 14, 2015 at 3:16 pm #1238294I think it is a guideline, not a rule written in either stone or blood. But is it a good guideline? For me, yes, I think so, or at least I generally go by it. But again, not in stone or blood. In general, I try to not use white in my shadows. Shadows are airy, transparent, or at least translucent…. White adds mass – the opposite. But do I ever get some white in a shadow, yes. And yes, in my grisaille level as well, with my grey, if it is a medium shadow, not the darkest dark shadows. In my color layers, I would rather use two or three hues to make the shadow color, none white. And if it needs to be lighter, than using a light hue instead of white, perhaps a yellow or a cool blue or a lake color.
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http://www.artallison.com/September 14, 2015 at 3:35 pm #1238298Thanks all.
I think when you are doing colour work adding white could be a problem.
With the grey underpainting you have some very dark grey in the shadow areas.
Then I try to add transparent colour to the shadows.
But to get a grey underpainting I think you have to add white or some white to make a dark grey
StewartSeptember 14, 2015 at 3:42 pm #1238305If it calls for a mid-tone grey from some bouncing light source or something, I’m definitely using white to move the value around, albeit a very small amount.
Mark is usually a cool dude about responding to questions too.
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www.jonbradley.artSeptember 14, 2015 at 4:07 pm #1238296How would your paint clouds or snow, or many other white objects without using white in the shadows? Mark Carder seems to paint mainly portraits and still lives. I could not find a painting of clouds by him on Google.
Aldro Hibbard
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September 14, 2015 at 4:17 pm #1238306He suggested you not use any white in your shadow colours?
Unless all his paintings are indoor scenes lighted with a spotlight, this makes no sense.
If the surface the shadow falls onto is light and you have a lot of ambient lighting, your shadow is much lighter than what you get from tube color.
How does he make his shadow colors lighter if he doesn’t use white? Magic?
September 14, 2015 at 4:24 pm #1238307How would your paint clouds or snow, or many other white objects without using white in the shadows? Mark Carder seems to paint mainly portraits and still lives. I could not find a painting of clouds by him on Google.
Aldro Hibbard
[ATTACH]829063[/ATTACH]
And it happens indoors too.
How would he paint these shadows without white? It’s impossible.
There’s no pigment that is as light as that shadow unless it’s a mixture with titanium or zinc white.
September 14, 2015 at 4:31 pm #1238308I think it is a guideline, not a rule written in either stone or blood. But is it a good guideline? For me, yes, I think so, or at least I generally go by it. But again, not in stone or blood. In general, I try to not use white in my shadows. Shadows are airy, transparent, or at least translucent…. White adds mass – the opposite.
How are shadows transparent, it’s simply the absence of direct light.
September 14, 2015 at 6:15 pm #1238290You need the correct VALUE, with or without white.
Lady Mars Orange Marmalade Stapleford
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September 14, 2015 at 7:14 pm #1238303Not sure Mark has ever said this. He does say not to ‘milk’your shadows with nearby brushtrokes to lighten them. This will ruin the painting.
In relation to transparency of shadows. Shadows are best painted with a build up of ‘transparent’ colours. This indeed does give them there subtle airyness. Both Rembrandt and Sargent used transparent colours like this to name but a few.
September 14, 2015 at 8:01 pm #1238309Shadows are best painted with a build up of ‘transparent’ colours.
Rembrandt used transparent colours like this to name but a few.
baloney, Rembrandt painted shadows with thick full body paint, if you stand in front of his paintings you can easily tell
the idea that you can’t use white in your shadow is another one of those unsubstantiated ideas that people make up on the fly
Rembrandt used white, lots of it.
“Rembrandt used impastos to accentuate shadows on surfaces facing away from the light source. Rembrandt’s paintings shows an affinity with the method of Titian, who was the first to use thickly applied and dragged impasto. ”
http://webartacademy.com/the-impasto-technique-of-rembrandt
He does say not to ‘milk’your shadows.
what does “milking shadows” even mean
.September 14, 2015 at 8:28 pm #1238304Not wishing to debate this Nanana. Its well known Rembrandt was a master of shadows. And if you study his pigments they were transparent. End of. The impasto was used in the highlights.
If you dont see shadows as transparent (oil and watercolour) then I cant help you.
September 14, 2015 at 8:35 pm #1238310if you study his pigments they were transparent
Not true, Rembrandt used many opaque pigments. Lead-tin yellow, more opaque than cadmiums are now, Lead-white, Red ochres, yellow ochres, etc.
And many of his shadows in his paintings are clearly thick layers of impasto with white in them. Not the “transparent layers of paint” you say.
If you dont see shadows as transparent then I cant help you.
I don’t, shadows are the absence of direct light, they have nothing to do with transparency.
There is no reason at all why you can’t paint shadows with opaque pigments or white.
.September 14, 2015 at 11:31 pm #1238291none of it really matters, transparency, color, or impasto, if the values aren’t correct…
Lady Mars Orange Marmalade Stapleford
Moderator: OIls, Pastels, Plein Air
Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken. -Oscar Wilde
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