Vnailing not working, spreading moulding apart.

[AmritS]

Hi all, I just purchased an orc 80 guillotine and a cheap mitre saw from bandq. I managed to get perfect 45 degrees cuts however when it comes to joining them ive been struggling with my vnailer.

I purchased this one off Ebay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISA...t_11 96wt_689

It seems very hit and miss when I use it. Sometimes it makes a big gap in the mouldings. It was near impossible to use with oak.

Any ideas? Do I need to purchase an expensive underpinner like the Charnwood m3 instead? Space is an issue for me. http://www.framerscorner.co.uk/uk/sh...inner-v-nailer


Thanks in advance

[Steve Collins]

Are you gluing the miters before joining? If not, you should do so for strength and to help hold the join together when nailing. If that still doesn't do it, consider clamps. A strap clamp is an economical alternative, but there are other options.

[AmritS]

Hi Steve, yesterday I used no more nails with a strap clamp. I had managed to push in some vnails into 2 corners of the oak wood which had softened from a bit of water (I'm wondering if it's worth putting water on the vnail points to soften it).

I only managed to join the other two pieces together with a strap clamp and some no more nails. These seemed to do the job overnight however I'm worried that it might not hold. Are the vnails for actually keeping it together?

So I think what you're saying is now that the glue is dry, try and vnail it. I'm worried this may cause the glued wood to seperate. I guess I can just use a few drops of water to soften the wood. This should make the vnails go in. It just depends on how it will contract once dry.

Here's what it looks like.

[beetee]

You coould have a look at one of these
http://www.lionpic.co.uk/media/24417...fo%20sheet.pdf
the next time you are in lion
or look at one of their IMnes underpinners.I am sure they will give you a try on some of their machines.
You could use clamps and wait for the glue to go off before pinning(v nailing)

Brian

[AmritS]

Thanks Brian. As an update I attempted to vnailer the oak frame now that the glue had dried. It didn't work out well.
As a review the PFK04 picture framing kit simply isn't up to the job. I regret buying it now.

I'll have to find another way. Spending £600 isn't an option. The smaller hand held ones from lion don't look like they can handle the hardwood oak frames either.

Originally Posted by beetee

You coould have a look at one of these
http://www.lionpic.co.uk/media/24417...fo%20sheet.pdf
the next time you are in lion
or look at one of their IMnes underpinners.I am sure they will give you a try on some of their machines.
You could use clamps and wait for the glue to go off before pinning(v nailing)

Brian

[ricksframes.com]

I think you will get better v-nail results with softer woods. I have always had trouble with oak. Some oaks you are better off putting in a framing vise and nailing.

Originally Posted by beetee

You could use clamps and wait for the glue to go off before pinning(v nailing)
Brian

I wouldn't do that, it will break the glue bond. V-nailing should be done while the glue is wet.

[DaveMak]

The purpose of a v-nailer is to hold the corners clamped together while the glue dries. It is the glue that gives the strength to the corners. That said, a v-nail or other physical hardware (brads, thumbnails, plastic inserts) will give some strength to your corners but properly gluing the corner will provide the most strength. Make sure you completely cover the wood surface and allow ample time for setting and curing before putting any stress on the corners.

Many framers like Corner Weld. I prefer maxim Blue or Maxim Red because of the quick set up times and relatively quick cure times.

With mouldings that particularly finicky (such as shadowbox mouldings or floater frames), I will glue them and let them set up in a corner vise. After all four corners are joined I will v-nail them. If they are allowed to cure they will not be jarred apart by the v-nailer. I find this method allows me to make sure the corners match well. The v-nailing just adds a bit more support on the off chance that the glue joint corner fails. The frame will not physically fall apart then and is repairable.

[beetee]

This one would have been 10 times better than the one you bought,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FRAME-JOIN... tem35bde134c9

I learnt a long time ago that you should buy the best you can afford with kit,it pays for itself in the end.You will always be wanting to upgrade if you buy the hobby kit.

Brian

[beetee]

You also get different v nails for hard/soft woods ,this can also make a difference.
hardwoods can be difficult even with a good underpinner.

Brian

[wsrea]

Dave, where can one get maxim blue or red glue? Bill

[DaveMak]

Most framing supply distributors carry it now but here is an online source:

http://www.artright.com/supplies.htm

It's made by Frame Specialties, Inc. in Elkhart, Indiana. They also make Kool-Tak mounting products and Ultra Lite Glass Cleaner, which I consider to be the best glass and acrylic cleaner too.

Here is Frame Specialties number in case you have trouble locating a local distributor:

800-777-3165

[DaveMak]

Anyone seriously interested in picture framing may want to visit:

www.thegrumble.com

"The Original BBS for picture framers, open to all with questions and interest in the picture framing industry. Retail, Homebased, Newbies, Suppliers, just interested in learning, everyone's welcome. Lets us know what you like or problems that you are having in picture framing today. You're not alone any more, come join the fun."

This forum is a great resource of information about proper framing techniques and materials. It's also a great on-line community.

Realize that the majority of people on The Grumble forum are professional framers. If you decide to post please give a little information about yourself and your level of experience. Most posters are quite helpful but be prepared to have a thick skin in case you get razzed a bit as a newbie.

[wsrea]

Thanks, Dave!

[AmritS]

As an update can I just say I have successfully been able to vnail using the charnwood tool http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISA...t_11 96wt_689.

It turned out I just had to adjust some settings. I managed to vnail the oak. It is also recommended not to vnail at the top end of the frame, but instead to vnail at the corner closest to the picture you wish to frame. This was a recommendation from Lion Mouldings. Doing these two things has made it possible for me to easily vnail.

[AmritS]

As another update, I have realised the vnailer is not a good one so Im going to invest in a new one. It keeps gaps and doesnt align properly.