Home Forums The Learning Center Color Theory and Mixing Yellow Ochre or Raw Sienna

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  • #457593
    Patrick1
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        Bearing in mind the variability of these pigments as shown in a recent thead – which do you prefer if you had to choose just one, and why? It will be my staple mid-chroma ‘yellow’ in a smallish palette for landscapes, a bit of people painting, and abstracts.

        #642407
        Ellis Ammons
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            If I had to choose one it would be the sienna. Yellow is easy enough to make brown/grey. I’ve tried yellow ochre before and it just takes piles of the stuff to get anywhere. It really doesn’t have much utility. I would rather have a primary yellow on my pallete and dap a bit into whatever I need.

            I would take the sienna because it’s a red brown that has so much utility with stepping out of black and blue and mixing with white for ballpark skin tone.

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            #642401
            kinasi
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                Raw sienna is redder than yellow ochre, which makes it a bit easier to use for protraiture.

                But raw siennas are incredibly inconsistent accross brands. Far more than even burnt sienna. Some raw siennas are dark, some are light, some are fully transparent bordering on watercolor, some are fully opaque.

                I find this to be a real problem, because if you start to rely on burnt sienna, you start to rely on a specific brand and specific raw sienna.

                Yellow ochres on the other hand differ far less, they are all semi-opaque to opaque. Yellow ochre PY42 is incredibly consistent accross brands. Every brand I tried it in has the same light yellow, and very slightly dulled sand color. The only negative is that it is more yellow, it depends on what you need.

                #642408
                Richard P
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                    Maybe slightly out of the original two choice question, but I like PBr24 (
                    Chrome titanate), it is a lighter and more chromatic version of Yellow Ochre and very opaque.

                    #642402
                    kinasi
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                        Maybe slightly out of the original two choice question, but I like PBr24 (
                        Chrome titanate), it is a lighter and more chromatic version of Yellow Ochre and very opaque.

                        I’ve tried it, it’s a nice opaque pigment. Although it’s not really an earth anymore, it is a very yellow pigment.

                        Consistent accross brands though.

                        I would be happy with raw sienna if brands actually agreed on what a raw sienna is supposed to be. But they don’t. They don’t agree on the opaqueness, they don’t agree on the hue, they don’t agree on the value, they don’t agree on the pigments used.

                        I guess if you keep using the same one single brand, maybe it’s less of an issue, but I am not really willing to lock myself into one brand. You develop a certain style of painting with a certain type of opacity you rely on, just changing brands can totally mess up how raw sienna works.

                        I’ve found raw sienna to be more consistent in watercolor, but in oil, raw sienna is an unpredictable mess from brand to brand.

                        #642403
                        kinasi
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                            Here is Raw Sienna from Winsor & Newton, and below Raw Sienna from Lefranc & Bourgeois, in oils.

                            I don’t mind some differences between pigments, but come on, the differences between Raw Sienna from brand to brand are a bit much to handle. You can not easily switch from an opaque version to a fully transparent one.

                            #642406

                            Yellow Ochre. I have and used both, but Raw Sienna lives in the auxillary paintbox. Yellow Ochre saves my more expensive pigments, Cadmium Yellow Light and Quinacridone Violet. You can always darken Yellow Ochre to create a Raw Sienna. Vice Versa, I just notice that Raw Sienna is full, and Yellow Ochre is always near empty.

                            #642404
                            Humbaba
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                                Based on personal experience, I would actually need both. You may ask why?, portraits painted with Raw Sienna only tend to look like clay.

                                #642396
                                Delofasht
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                                    In keeping a limited palette, I would opt for Yellow Ochre, but this is of course based on what else I would usually have on my palette. In asking this, it might be important to list the rest that you plan for your palette.

                                    It really is a nice versatile color though, and I rather like Yellow Ochre. Raw Sienna is wonderful for underpaintings or very minimally colored sketches where I just want to hint at color and use it mostly tonally with blacks and reds.

                                    - Delo Delofasht
                                    #642399
                                    wal_t
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                                        I would go for Yellow Ochre, being less transparant and more usefull in the portraits I do. Can probably achive the same with Raw Sienna and a bit of white though but I never use it for no real reason.

                                        Walter

                                        #642398
                                        Mythrill
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                                            You could try Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide (PY 42). It’s very versatile: if you add some white, it behaves somewhat similarly to Yellow Ochre (PY 43); if you use it thickly, it’s a bit more like Raw Sienna (PBr 7); and if you tint it with medium, it works like a transparent dull yellow instead.

                                            #642397
                                            Delofasht
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                                                Oh and as Mythrill points out, PY42 Transparent Oxide Yellow is a gloriously versatile color. Being transparent it glazes over white to an amazingly vibrant yellow as well, there is just nothing wrong with that color in any way, it does everything!

                                                I still like PY 110 just a bit better than any of these yellows, but if I had to choose from your choices, Yellow Ochre > Raw Sienna (really do like Raw Sienna, just can’t find enough uses for it that I cannot easily replicate in other colors).

                                                - Delo Delofasht
                                                #642405

                                                Yellow Ochre for sure. Most Siennas are easily reached with a mix from Yellow Ochre itself.

                                                I find Y.O.’s value being its ability to mute and stabilize colors while maintaining warmth in mixes, moreso than most other colors.

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                                                #642400
                                                opainter
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                                                    I definitely prefer Yellow Ochre (PY42). You can mix a good Raw Sienna color from a Yellow Ochre, but you will mix something muddier in appearance than Yellow Ochre if you try to mix that from a Raw Sienna.

                                                    AJ (opainter), C&C always welcome
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