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  #61   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-12-2005, 06:38 PM
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Kathryn Wilson Kathryn Wilson is offline
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Just discovered this thread - rest easy in knowing that you've done a beautiful job on this. Let us know when the client gets back to you - he should be thrilled with it.
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:45 PM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Lovely soft colours and an impressive likeness of this noble looking dog!
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:08 AM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Glad you all like it. I've heard back from my client. He says it is "fine". But not pale enough.

I honestly don't know if I can do anything about that. May have to say no and accept that I've wasted a lot of time and energy for absolutely no gain!
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:15 AM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Hi E-J,

You have DEFINATELY got the likeness spot on. I have had another look at your reference photo and I think if you add pale warm grey for the shadows e.g the right hand side of the forehead and face. A pale mouse grey not a blue grey, then go in with some white here and there it will lighten it a lot. I am not very good at explaining what I mean. Can you post the reference photo again so it will show what I mean. It is just a suggestion, so ignore me if you want
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:49 AM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Hi Lorraine! I guess if I do that, I will need to add the pale warm grey to ALL the shadows, including the body ... and I'm not sure the body in particular will take any more pastel without looking "icky". Wouldn't I then have to rework the entire painting to get the greyishness all over the coat? I'm very worried about overworking. I could probably add a touch of white to the lightest areas, but they're quite saturated already, as I wanted that "tactile" look. Anyone here ever used Tippex (Wite-Out) on a pastel painting??

Philosophical sidenote: It's quite demoralising when something you've REALLY worked hard on is dismissed as "fine". I think the lack of emotional response all along has been feeding into my feelings about the painting, and making me prone to these defeatist moments.
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:15 AM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Hi EJ,

I'd like to see the reference photo, if I could. I see others have made reference to it but I can't fine it, I must be blind.

Is he a "white" Golden? Some are very light in colour. Did the client only provide you with "one" photo? From your description of the reference photo, it sounds as if it's substandard. It rots my socks to hear that you are agonizing over this portrait. The down trodden state you are in right now is "not your fault", especially since you haven't met this animal. The client hasn't done his part in providing adequate reference, so he can go "jump in the lake". I very rarely work from only "one" photo, no one only has "one" photo of their animal. I often try and squeeze as many out of the client as I can.

Anyway, I would like to see this reference.

Thanks

Heather
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:29 AM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Hi Heather. Sorry to hear about your rotting socks. At least that expression made me smile!

Here's a link to the whole saga of the ref pics I was given, and what was originally requested. Scroll down to post #25 for the head shot - it was provided some time after the others.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308083

Sometimes he looks white, sometimes gold, sometimes both. In trying to compensate for the purple colour cast affecting the shadows in the head shot (and hopefully make for a more dramatic painting) I have indeed not gone light enough overall - though looking at my painting in person, the palest highlights are actually paler than they appear here, almost white in fact. I don't think I can put down another stroke on what is already becoming an overworked piece.
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:53 AM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Man, this is a tough spot to be in E-J.

What paper is this worked on? At the 11th hour, when all else fails and you are about to dump it into the bin, please consider not doing that. You have the shape of the head dead on - you are only fretting over the color and the many layers of pastel on the paper.

Consider this, trying brushing out the color - I know this sounds disastrous, but it can work if you take it gently in one spot to see what can be done. (caution: don't do it to the whole head shot at first!!!) I then would use a paper frisket to corral one area and use fixative to reestablish the surface. I've used a fan brush which is very soft and gently brush away.

I've seen lots of "goldens" in this color - think of it as ash blonde.

Last edited by Kathryn Wilson : 12-13-2005 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:28 AM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

E-J, I think this dog is great. Can't you spray it lightly with a fixative. I did that with my cow (in my signature line), which was done on Canson mi teintes. I used Talens fixative for pastel. It worked fine and did not change the colour. I think I have sprayed my cow at least three times as there was so much pastel on it, so that it did not want to hold any pastel anymore. I don't think the end result will look over worked then. Good luck!
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Old 12-13-2005, 12:46 PM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Kat, technical terms - "frisket" and "corral". What do they mean? Sorry to be clueless! Thanks for your suggestions. Marina, thanks too.
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Old 12-13-2005, 02:13 PM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle
Man, this is a tough spot to be in E-J.

At the 11th hour, when all else fails and you are about to dump it into the bin, please consider not doing that. You have the shape of the head dead on - you are only fretting over the color and the many layers of pastel on the paper.

I've seen lots of "goldens" in this color - think of it as ash blonde.

When I need to re-establish tooth I use a soft brush and or a clean kneaded eraser (preferably one that is brand new) I've managed to restore enough tooth to then go in and apply two more layers.

I agree with Kat, you have the shape and likeness of the head. All you need to do is lighten him a bit. I hope I don't sound like a rotten apple by saying that.

I would soften the hard edges of dark brown around ears and folds in the neck, maybe add some of the blue from the background. He has a very babyish face, so any shadow areas should be soft and delicate in order to maintain that youthful look. He has very soft silky hair, you have some lovely wispy hair growing out of the top of ears, I would add more of those to this dog.

I hope this helps EJ

Heather
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:54 AM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Wow! EJ this is wonderful portrait. Just stop now. No more strokes are needed. Really you have achieved a wonderful expression.

Thanks
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Old 12-15-2005, 05:29 AM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cascadeoflove
Wow! EJ this is wonderful portrait. Just stop now. No more strokes are needed. Really you have achieved a wonderful expression.

I wish that were the case! If I don't produce what the client wants, I don't get paid - simple as that. So I guess I've got nothing to lose by giving Heather's suggestions a go. Thanks everyone.
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Old 12-15-2005, 08:26 AM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-J
Kat, technical terms - "frisket" and "corral". What do they mean? Sorry to be clueless! Thanks for your suggestions. Marina, thanks too.

Ooops, sorry E-J. Having done watercolors, this is a term they use to keep an area white. If there is a small area that you can experiment with, take a sheet of paper and cut a hole in it the size of the area you want to experiment on. Brush out the pastel in that area (preferably at the bottom to start, then place the frisket over the top of your painting and spray away with fixative. The frisket will keep the spray from straying into parts of the painting you don't want darkened.

Like I said, it is a "last hour" experiment when all else fails. I did use this on my Bryce Canyon painting when one area just did not come up to par - I actually did it several times until I got it just right.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:01 AM
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Re: Golden retrieiver/ wip Finished!

This is so beautifully done it is frustrating to me and I'm not even involved! You're a fabulous artist and you can correct this if needed. I tend to think you can give it more of an illusion of paleness without having to go over the whole dog with touching it here and there, or by maybe changing those dark shadow colors (consider not the darkest part of the shadow but the next darkest). The reason I say that is, it seems the lightest parts of the dog are reading right -reads very light - but for the client I can see him looking at the shadows and saying the dog overall isn't pale enough (they don't look at the need for contrasts). Can you do the dark/light contrast with a bit different coloring for an illusion? Does this make sense? If not, ignore that, but just know, you can succeed in this.

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