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  #16   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-19-2005, 03:21 AM
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the drover's dog the drover's dog is offline
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

Holding my hand up. I'm the one that posted the wish list of WIPs. Thanks Mikki for answering my prayers so quickly and to others who are jumping in here with sage advice. Have pulled up my chair and made the coffee. Settling in to see and learn.

Tom's drop dead gorgeous pic posting to illustrate his advice was a big help. One of those AHAH! moments.

Dale
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Old 08-19-2005, 07:53 AM
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Nancy Leone Nancy Leone is offline
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

Mikki,
I haven't had much time for WC lately....but very happy to see one of your wip here today. They are always great learning threads for me.
Looking good so far....you've captured the background well.
Will be checking back in!
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Old 08-19-2005, 08:13 AM
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SweetBabyJ SweetBabyJ is offline
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

My fault, Mikki- I plead watermelon puree on my screen interferred with visual acuity. Or somethng. In the photo, the island is in the right half horizontally, but still rather centered vertically- I should've checked the painting knowing you would catch that. *hangs head* Mea culpa. Please don't throw me in the briar patch (or give me to Sue).

As to the water: I know exactly what you mean about it being so blue-Blue-BLUE! The two HopeValley pieces I did showed the same effect: A near turquoise sky with deep royal blue reflected water- and this effect was present both in the pics and in real (I know, I was there and saw and puzzled over it). In both, that's what I laid in because that's what was right. But when they were done, I found I had to lighten that blue a bit because it was so dark, it was making the whole painting appear dark, rather than sunlit.

(There was always this odd frisson, too, that at first glance, it WAS right- that when being there, looking at the water, that IS what it looked like, but when one is there, the world is all around you- above, below, to each side and behind- and peripheral vision gives us this- not to mention all the years of visual experience we have TELLING us there is more than this simple rectangle influencing our view. So it was odd- I would see it as "right" at first glance, and then upon a bit of study, see it as "wrong"- too dark. I have no clue how landscapists and plein air-ers deal with this phenomenom).
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Old 08-19-2005, 12:01 PM
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Mikki Petersen Mikki Petersen is offline
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

Julie, don't apologise...I didn't know that the left upper was the "sweet zone" so I learned something. However, I am completely right sided and generally my focal point will land in the right quadrants...call it my style(????)....

I'm hoping the blue will adjust into the scene as the rest of it develops or I may have to lighten it for the overall effect. I just love that electric blue though and seldom get to use it so I'm holding out for now.

Tracy, I somehow forgot to respond to your post. I so admire the Group of Seven and Emily Carr is my hero...what a fascinating woman! Nice to hear someone mention them as I think they are relatively unknown compared to the East Coast Groups of the time. Oh would that I could paint so expressively!

TJ, thanks for your comments. I like hearing that this composition might work because it is so recognizably Woods Lake. I will go in and shrink and soften the tree reflections and hope for the best.

Taking grandkids to the State Fair today so won't have time to work on this...grumble, grumble. Funny, I've been stalled on this painting for about two weeks and now with some direction from all of you I can't wait to get back at it.

Thanks so much,
Mikki
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Old 08-19-2005, 12:20 PM
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

Oooooh this is good! Going back to read again. I will be following along.

Great start Mikki!
Donna
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Old 08-19-2005, 12:29 PM
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SweetBabyJ SweetBabyJ is offline
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

A simple way to find what is called "the sweet spot" (for more on this whole idea, go read the composition and design forum until your brains leak out of your head and you start to feel as if this whole art idea is really, really stupid) is to divide your "paper" into thirds both vertically and horizontally. Wherever the lines cross is considered "a sweet spot". What this means is, supposedly, this is the most comfortable, "best" place for your center of interest to reside, that our eyes automatically enter a picture plane in one of these areas. Lately, especially, this idea has received a great deal of critical attention because it seems the whole "formula" has come under scrutiny as "wrong"- I dunno- my eyes crossed while I was reading, and by the time I got 'em unstuck my head hurt and my brains were leaking out. There's also the school of thought that, since Art should be innovative and creative, using the Golden Mean (or sweet spot idea) is outmoded, and goes against innovation and creativity. yada-yada-yada.

Me, I just paint.

Here's a diagram of what the Golden Mean is (in a shortcut manner, because the "real" one is a hugely complex mathematical formula involving angles and probably brains leaking out) and how to find the sweet spot: Wherever there is a reddish square is considered a "sweet spot".



Edit: You know, to those who are new to the site, if you think a thread is extra-informative, or contains info which should be easily accessed, you can "rate it" which will cause it to receive "stars", so that it is moved to the Library. Our Pastel Forum Library is expressly for just such threads which members feel contain good information. To rate a thread, click the Quote button as if to reply, and on the blue bar where it says Thread Tools/Search This Thread/etc, you'll see one "Rate This Thread". That gives you a dropdown menu and you can give the thread your rating. Other new folks who are struggling with these issues will thank you for this when it is more easily found in the Library, rather than through a "Search This Forum" trek.

Last edited by SweetBabyJ : 08-19-2005 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 08-19-2005, 12:50 PM
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Mikki Petersen Mikki Petersen is offline
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

You gave me a shiver...I know the general philosophy of the golden mean and was thus confused when you spoke of the focal point in the wrong place. But we've been through that now. What gave me a shiver is that I was just thinking about all those tight rules of construction and composition and how they cramp the creative gesture. Here you come and post just what I was thinking about.

Me too...I just paint! But I do consider the rules and decide if I care or not with each new piece. Lots of times the rules are right as a guide. For instance, I thought about the rule of letting oblects lead out of the painting or create a barrier as a compositional consideration for this piece. But, ya know, this is the effect of standing on the edge of this lake and I want that effect. So now I'm trying to succeed in breaking a rule. We shall see...

Mikki
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:22 PM
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Kathryn Wilson Kathryn Wilson is offline
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetBabyJ
Edit: You know, to those who are new to the site, if you think a thread is extra-informative, or contains info which should be easily accessed, you can "rate it" which will cause it to receive "stars", so that it is moved to the Library. Our Pastel Forum Library is expressly for just such threads which members feel contain good information. To rate a thread, click the Quote button as if to reply, and on the blue bar where it says Thread Tools/Search This Thread/etc, you'll see one "Rate This Thread". That gives you a dropdown menu and you can give the thread your rating. Other new folks who are struggling with these issues will thank you for this when it is more easily found in the Library, rather than through a "Search This Forum" trek.


Right on Julie! Sometimes I feel like I am beating my brains against the wall, for I have said the same thing time and again in those really important threads to no avail. I have now almost completed 110 pages of reading to find those wonderful threads that have become "lost" so that I can move them to the Library.

I am not pouncing on Mikki's thread - she's done the footwork for the Library, I thank her for taking the time to do it for all of us - now I have to complete it.

Now back on topic -
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Old 08-19-2005, 05:28 PM
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prestonsega prestonsega is offline
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

Mikki...the most difficult thing for me when painting water reflections is keeping it realistic, mirror-like from a physics point of view. The slightest askew tree limb, though not readily identifiable can be disconcerting. Using a level and a T square can be helpful in checking yourself. By looking at both the ref image and the WIP on their sides often during the painting process can help. Also, both Tom and Kat have mentioned the technique I first heard of from one of our industrial partners (Lowery). I too have found dragging down the painted water reflections with the palm of my hand to be effective in still waters........but your body of water is rather choppy and will require more horizontal strokes that Tom mentioned after the "smear". The choppy water too, is more noticable when the pic is placed on its side.

The blue intense sky reflection...hmmmmmm. I think you are seeing results unique to photography....at any rate, remember that objects in a water reflections are of less contrast in value and hue intensity in relationship to each other than the objects being reflected.....the camera doesn't usually pick this up very well.

Looking good and hope to see more progress soon!



Last edited by prestonsega : 08-19-2005 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 08-19-2005, 07:03 PM
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Kathryn Day Kathryn Day is offline
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

Mikki, this looks like a tough one. I can see what you wanted to convey and am sure you will bring it to a great finish. I will watch and learn.
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:37 AM
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

Just watching....and learning...knowing you, Mikki...in the end you will struggle and end up with a beaut!


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Old 08-20-2005, 02:52 PM
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

Hi Mikki-You have picked a very challenging piece. I rarely do water, so have very litte to offer, but am enjoying watching your progress and hearing everyones advice. This is going to be a beautiful painting.
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:24 PM
kkelly kkelly is offline
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

Mikki,
Just a thought, from the reference the blue of the sky is greenish, the blue of the water is reddish. This makes a distinction between to two halves. I seems to me, just my opinion mind you, that your sky and your water are very close in color. This causes them to sit on the same plane in the picture, or to be read as the same. You don't seem to get the same visual movement between the sky and the water that you have in the reference. This may also help in the differentiation between the tree space and the reflection space.
Karl
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Old 08-21-2005, 02:11 AM
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

Excellent thread, good lessons at the right time, isn't that the way.

I came back to vote, really appreciate this.

Is that kkelly aka Mr Mt Vision pastels? Excellent point!

Donna
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Old 08-21-2005, 01:40 PM
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SweetBabyJ SweetBabyJ is offline
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Re: Wood's Lake - Wip

Mikki? Did you get lost at the fair??

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