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Old 04-28-2004, 12:21 AM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

Just so you dont think i have anything against modern masters, attached is a sample from one you should take note of.Everette raymond kinstler is this Master's name.And make no mistake......this is the guy at the top of the food chain.Here is a man that understands the importance of catching gesture.Any man that has works in the WHITEHOUSE,...I take notice of.And the other guys KNOW, this is the top guy.His web-site does'nt even HAVE A NUMBER.Just an address.You have to WRITE, to find out how much you are going to have to pay.
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Old 04-28-2004, 12:45 AM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

that betty ford one, did not scan well.So here is a better Kinstler, this is donald rumsfeld, you know--our secretary of defense.
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Old 04-28-2004, 07:36 AM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

Thank you for such an interesting thread!
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Old 04-28-2004, 10:12 AM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

Terry,

Thanks for posting all this valuable information.

One question about the hand-compass method: How do you adjust to different head/hand sizes? It seems that this method would always result in the same head size for a given artist's hand--the points would always be the same distance apart.

Kent
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Old 04-28-2004, 02:57 PM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

Hey fun to cook!, thanks for the reply.I was glad to share it.Its fun sharing tips w/fellow Wc Artists.--Terry
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Old 04-28-2004, 03:21 PM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

Hey kent!-thanks for your reply, compliment&interesting points.Now then, on to your question&point: I have big hands, my instructor's hands were smaller.This is similar to the challanges Pianist's must deal with.I've read about modern piano maistro's with un-believably small-hands.One interview w/such a small-handed pianist, the pianists said that he had to adapt&overcome his small-hand size.I would imagine the same can be said of us Artists.As far as the different head sizes, a word on that:I remember once going to the local flea-market, and seeing a American Indian there, doing charcoal sketches live, at a booth.I of course, was drawn to the booth!(I observed though, and never let on that i too,was an Artist.)The first thing i noticed about this Indian's work, was that he was doing a sketch of a BABY,.......the HEAD, was......unbelievably LARGE.Indeed, the baby head was LARGER THAN LIFE-SIZE.On some kind of newspaper pad, that he was working on.The effect, i remember, was like a movie i saw as a kid at the drive-in.The movie was called---"IT'S ALIVE!" It was a monster baby, with a too large, mongoloid-type head.Lesson learned, NEVER-do a baby head larger than life size.This Hand-compass method is based on proper head size props.Since My instructor's hands was Not that small(Like dwarf-small),and my hands, are not that big, We were able to configure our hands to accomodate proper sizes for heads.Now, if everyone wants me to share this chart my instructor made me, i will figure out a way to do it.But you must realize that these props for the proper sizes to paint heads in general, are my&his determinations, from experience, at the selling level of actual portraits.You may have your own judgements on the size you want to make heads.My advice though, dont be like that indian!
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Old 04-28-2004, 03:39 PM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

One other word on the hand-compass technique, everyone must see it as what it is.....a way to utilize your hand in a COMPASS-LIKE MANNER.the purpose is to create 3-EQUAL SPACES.this is in line with what you have learned.It works in concert with the props you have learned.Now, having said that, to some(according to whatever your hand size is.)--you may want to configure your hand to make the, VULCAN LIVE LONG AND PROSPER SIGN!--you see?!, the cofiguration, is up to you, in accordance to your hand size, taste for head size, etc. the end-result, of three-equal spaces is what is paramount.
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Old 04-28-2004, 04:08 PM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

Hello.

I am confused. You said that the line designating the mouth should be drawn half way between the nose line and bottom of chin but your diagram did not support that because the mouth line was actually quite a bit higher than half way. That was also in contradiction to you stating that you felt the mouth line should be half way even though many artists claim it should be higher up (as your diagram showed).


Why the discrepancy? Or have I missed something?


Thanks,
Tim
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Old 04-28-2004, 04:11 PM
ProfessorGreibowitz ProfessorGreibowitz is offline
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

I am new to portraits and have a question about the color of the skin. Is it customary to oversaturate the color in the skin tones as I see in the Rumsfeld portrait? It looks very unnatural to me. Is there a reason for that? Better in low lighting? Strokes the vanity of the subject in question??? Makes it seem stronger than real life?? Just wondering!!!!


Thanks,
Tim
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Old 04-28-2004, 06:07 PM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

Hey prof, on your statement, when you are painting, or drawing a live portrait(which is what we are talking about here.)---you will have to ESTIMATE.Your stating that the mouth line is higher than 1/2 way, is an illusion.the THICKNESS of the ink line gives this illusion.My estimation of 1/2 way, is what i was operating on.I already stated the fact that their are TWO SCHOOLS of thought on this.You may differ, and choose to go with the thought of it being slightly above 1/2 way.(the 2-schools of thought, is mentioned in the thread.You may have missed it.)Thats fine.I of course, have my opinion on the matter.But whatever school one chooses to believe, it seems to me, to be of such slightness, that it makes the subject moot.Because one is going to be CHANGING THINGS anyway,......to capture the deviation.(Likeness.)

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Old 04-28-2004, 06:14 PM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

Prof, on your saying that the Kinstler, is unnatural, well-the Pentagon dont seem to think so.As to whether kinstler intended this effect, or the various reasons you mentioned....who knows?!!-I personally like the piece.Now one possible explaination, could be that web-sites cant really capture the beauty of Art as seen in the book from which this scan was made.And books, in turn, cant capture the look of a piece as seen in person.
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Old 04-28-2004, 06:28 PM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

Extra for those that want to make themselves an egg.Attached is another option instead of a silly putty egg.This egg is called EGGZ.what it was invented for is percussionists to practice their rhythm.It is smaller than the silly putty egg.Inside the egg, is magnetic shavings.the egg is sealed.So all you have to do, is the aforementioned steps.One can use this magnetic filler inside the egg, by stacking concentric magnets, and using that as your neck, base for your egg!To me, this would make for a "cooler" egg!
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Old 04-28-2004, 06:41 PM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

and lastly for clarification to those that have not made the connection, Metric visual one, heads 3&5.....represent STAGES OF CHANGE,-REPEAT-CHANGE, as a live portrait progresses , so if you are looking at the man's mouth line, you have to realize that EVERYONE'S face differs.you will have to be CHANGING your props to catch the deviations(likeness), this means one person's mouth line is undoubtily higher than the norm.this fact is repeated in the thread.Deviations are the likeness.Dont think you can draw, or paint just what you know-to the neglect of what you see.The purpose of props, beside having properly proportioned heads, is to help you:LOCATE,NOTICE-THE DEVIATIONS.
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Old 04-28-2004, 07:58 PM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

finally to my wc friends outthere, due to the overwhelming good reviews this thread has garnered,plus the heavy views it's pulling(This one is pulling even more than my golden mean thread!)---If you wish, This is only the "tip of the ice berg!"--we can go in-depth on: lighting for portaits, composition, etc.Design, advanced design.let me know which subjects catch your interest the most.--terry
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Old 04-28-2004, 09:44 PM
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Re: Painting&Drawing from life...Props of the face.

Hi Terry!

I was not questioning the artist's skill when i inquired about saturation. It seems that many portraits are overly saturated and since i am new to painting them 9I actually have not tried color yet, only B&W) I wondered if making them have more color than real life was done on purpose for some reason or it was just accepted w/o questions etc. Just trying to learn the whys and you seemed to be the one to know!


Also, is it just me or do you need a ruler? (heheheheheh JOKING!) I am TOTALLY not seeing what you are saying about the mouth line. In fact, I copied yours and put red lines on them so you can see what I am seeing and then maybe it will be something I am missing. But this diagram seems to directly contradict your belief that it SHOULD be half way and why would your diagram support those you feel are wrong?


Here is my modified diagram and again, I am not trying to be confrontational but simply trying to understand if I am correct in my viewing of the lines or not. To me, the middle red line (mouth line) is not even close to half way but more like 1/3 the distance to the chin.


See if the mouth line still looks half way to you in this pic. Did you just draw it higher in haste? Inquiring minds must know!!! Also, thank you a lot for sharing this info because I don't know half of it so that is why i need clarification.


Thanks!!!!!!


Tim
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