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Old 02-02-2020, 02:03 PM
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midwest midwest is offline
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Straight lines

What methods do you use to get firm straight lines, like edges of roofts and such?
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Old 02-02-2020, 02:12 PM
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Re: Straight lines

Usually I just draw such straight lines on my canvas using a charcoal pencil at the time I'm creating my preliminary sketch on the canvas, along with such important shapes as circles, ellipses, squares, rectangles, etc.

When I begin my oil painting, I merely follow those charcoal lines with paint. I find that rather easy to do.

If the addition of a straight line to my painting is an afterthought, I usually use a straight edge such as a ruler, or my mahl stick, upon which I rest my hand, and create the edge with a pointed brush, and paint.
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Old 02-02-2020, 03:35 PM
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Re: Straight lines

Thanks, Bill
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Old 02-02-2020, 04:06 PM
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Ron Francis Ron Francis is offline
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Re: Straight lines

I use a mahl stick, running the ferrule along it like a ruler.
Here's an example video ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQXR_Xtf0oA&t=9s
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Last edited by Ron Francis : 02-02-2020 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:06 PM
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Re: Straight lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Francis
Wow, you have to admire that kind of skill...

Kathie, if you're going to rule lines (in paint) on a canvas, there are some tricks to make it easier.

ONE:
First, you need a rigger, I suggest a number 8.
There are smaller and larger riggers, but they all form a point at the tip, so a big rigger can theoretically make as fine a line as a small rigger.
I use a Supreme Taklon Rigger, not a sable, they're cheaper, just as good (IMHO) and last 5 times as long.
I got sick of wearing out sable riggers, till I switched to Taklon.
The number 8 is the sweet spot (IMHO), its stiff enough to control, holds enough paint, and easily forms a tip to draw a line.

TWO:
Second, you need to get your paint to the right "ink like consistency".
You can't draw a fine line with thick paint.
The paint must be thinned with a lean medium (IMHO).
Some paints are too sticky, some don't have enough pigment.
You have to experiment to find just the right colours that will thin down to an inky consistency and be strong enough for your needs.

THREE:
Rulers: You don't need the expertise of the signwriter in Ron's link, though "respect" to anyone who has it.
You can simply lay your canvas (or panel) on a table, and draw your line with a ruler.
Treat the rigger like an ordinary pencil, and guide the bristles along the ruler, it's surprisingly easy.
You'll want to practice on a spare canvas for a bit
And, because inky paint may want to seep under the edge of the ruler, taping a bit of card underneath the ruler, to keep the edge slightly up from the surface, is a good idea



I'm often ruling lines, grids, guides etc on my canvas, as you can see.
The number 8 Taklon rigger is the tool to get the job done

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Old 02-02-2020, 08:16 PM
JCannon JCannon is offline
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Re: Straight lines

It all depends on your painting style, doesn't it? If you paint over a dark-toned canvas, then Bill Martin's method won't work, because you probably won't be able to see the graphite or charcoal lines you've drawn with a ruler. You may not even be able to see inked lines.

Things are different if you are painting over a detailed drawing on a white ground. Using any ultra-small brush, it's relaively easy to get right up next to straight edge of the object (i.e., a building or a roof) without going over the line. You don't need a ruler, a mahl stick or a rigger brush -- just a steady hand and the willingness to go slowly and pay attention to detail.

Of course, you can't glop on the paint. It must be thinned to the proverbial ink-like consistency. It probably won't be opaque.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer to paint in thin layers on an absorbent panel, even though that approach is deprecated in many instructional books.

Last edited by JCannon : 02-02-2020 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 02-02-2020, 09:04 PM
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Re: Straight lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCannon
It must be thinned to the proverbial ink-like consistency. It probably won't be opaque.
Mr. Cannon, in the example I posted, the lines are *reasonably* opaque.
For example, the white is Langridge Titanium Buff, which is very highly pigmented, and is still quite strong, diluted.
Similarly, Langridge Mars Black and Burnt Sienna are fairly potent, and thin well.
By noting these types of characteristics one can use cunning to achieve one's ends.
For example, a light blue can be mixed with T.White.Buff and Pthalo, and the T.W.B will provide the covering power for a *reasonably* opaque line.


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Old 02-03-2020, 02:44 PM
Moises Menendez Moises Menendez is offline
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Re: Straight lines

Depending on the length of the strait line the side of the loaded palette knife can create perfect short straight lines. All depends also on the size of the palette knife. I saw that trick on a tutorial video.
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Old 02-03-2020, 05:44 PM
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Re: Straight lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moises Menendez
the loaded palette knife can create perfect short straight lines
Good point, Moises. Again, you'd want to try a few practice strokes.
Getting just the right amount of paint along the edge of the blade is important, otherwise the line can get a bit blotchy.
A knife (painting or palette) is also pretty good for creating a nice straight area of tone, that could be the edge of a roof, chimney, pole etc.
I've seen video of Richard Schmid using a knife to create a nice edge, then continuing to work the area wet-in-wet with brush.

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Old 02-03-2020, 09:57 PM
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Re: Straight lines

The #8 taklon rigger looks like just the ticket. I asked another artist who does a lot of great city scenes . He used escoda sable large riggers, im gonna take your advice
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Old 02-03-2020, 10:49 PM
KEVIN$ KEVIN$ is online now
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Re: Straight lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffro Jones

ONE:
First, you need a rigger, I suggest a number 8.
There are smaller and larger riggers, but they all form a point at the tip, so a big rigger can theoretically make as fine a line as a small rigger.
I use a Supreme Taklon Rigger, not a sable, they're cheaper, just as good (IMHO) and last 5 times as long.
I got sick of wearing out sable riggers, till I switched to Taklon.
The number 8 is the sweet spot (IMHO), its stiff enough to control, holds enough paint, and easily forms a tip to draw a line.



I'm often ruling lines, grids, guides etc on my canvas, as you can see.
The number 8 Taklon rigger is the tool to get the job done

:::




Help...Can anyone post a link to this brush?
I have been looking for such a thing and cannot find it not even on Amazon. I would like to buy several just to make sure I have enough on hand.



Kevin
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Old 02-04-2020, 03:37 AM
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Ted Bunker Ted Bunker is offline
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Re: Straight lines

Painting knives create nice sharp edges.
Adjustable drafting inking pens also work, even better with watercolor.
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Last edited by Ted Bunker : 02-04-2020 at 03:40 AM.
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:49 AM
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Re: Straight lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEVIN$
Help...Can anyone post a link to this brush?
Kevin, you would think this would be an easy request, but nothing is easy, apparently.
I'm getting the impression that the style, the name, the brush, is particular to Australia, because all the hits on Google are from Australian sites.
Obviously the brush style must be available in the USA etc, but I have *NO IDEA* what it is called.
My apologies, after so happily recommending it, I just presumed it would be easily available at DickBlick or Jerry's Artarama etc.
The brush has these writings on it:
8 HERMAN PERKEL SUPREME TAKLON RIGGER NEEF 552
My sleuthing reveals that NEEF are an Australian wholesaler, who import art materials and brand them locally, ie: Herman Perkel, a celeb painter.

I went to Ebay.com, and searched for: "neef 552 rigger" and got a hit that ships worldwide, from a local dealer called "Carlisle Arts".
here's a link to that one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Neef-552-Su...QKp_ fDCXDuqQ

and I've since found their website, and it advertises international shipping:
https://www.carlisleart.com.au/produ...ush-39971.aspx


Apologies again for my misleading presumption


:::

Last edited by Jeffro Jones : 02-04-2020 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:49 AM
KEVIN$ KEVIN$ is online now
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Re: Straight lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffro Jones
Kevin, you would think this would be an easy request, but nothing is easy, apparently.
I'm getting the impression that the style, the name, the brush, is particular to Australia, because all the hits on Google are from Australian sites.
Obviously the brush style must be available in the USA etc, but I have *NO IDEA* what it is called.
My apologies, after so happily recommending it, I just presumed it would be easily available at DickBlick or Jerry's Artarama etc.
The brush has these writings on it:
8 HERMAN PERKEL SUPREME TAKLON RIGGER NEEF 552
My sleuthing reveals that NEEF are an Australian wholesaler, who import art materials and brand them locally, ie: Herman Perkel, a celeb painter.

I went to Ebay.com, and searched for: "neef 552 rigger" and got a hit that ships worldwide, from a local dealer called "Carlisle Arts".
here's a link to that one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Neef-552-Su...QKp_ fDCXDuqQ

and I've since found their website, and it advertises international shipping:
https://www.carlisleart.com.au/produ...ush-39971.aspx


Apologies again for my misleading presumption
:::




Thanks for the help, that gets me moving in another direction. I have a really thin rigger (maybe it's a liner brush?) that works well but the brush is so thin with long hairs that it doesn't hold much paint thus it's limited on how long the line can be. Also, the tip of the hairs usually hold a blob of paint that needs to be removed before making a line which if course minimizes the amount of paint the bristles hold.


I'll see what I can find out too and I don't mind Int'l shipping.


ks
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Last edited by KEVIN$ : 02-04-2020 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 02-04-2020, 08:42 AM
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midwest midwest is offline
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Re: Straight lines

Thanks for the tip on the NEEF brush, definitely will look for one.
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