Home Forums Explore Media Watercolor The Learning Zone Best Student Grade Paper?

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  • #992194
    Nalatu
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        I personally use Saunders Waterford, but if I wanted to recommend a cheaper paper to someone, what would you suggest? Let’s say something less than $1.50 per full sheet or $15 for a block/pad/sketchbook.

        #1210435
        silvermoss
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            I’m using canson Montval 100 sheets $50 and it is fine. But I don’t have other student quality only artist. Close up of the paper here https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12659202&postcount=17 – swatches with Potters pink. Here with 10 layers of glazing to make darkest value on colour chart
            https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20185563&postcount=89

            N.b. Australian prices usually expensive, may be cheaper where you are. This price is in AUD for an A4 sized sheet

            Moss

            Critique and comments always welcome and much appreciated.

            #1210448
            briantmeyer
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                I love montval, it’s a great paper to use but it’s not nearly as good as the 100% rag papers. It’s still pricey enough that I want to not waste it. I can get some serious work done on it, but I tend to just stock up on Arches instead of this. To me it’s an affordable means of getting paper in watercolor block format.

                I am using Canson XL Watercolor[/url]. I would say it’s good for doing things like gesture studies, quick sketches, general practice work where you want to just tear thru lots of sheets of paper. Not something to learn how to do washes on, but good for getting mileage, or to do prepatory studies on. I’ve had some of my most successful work on this paper.

                I also like the cheap multimedia XL sketchbooks they do, one step above regular paper, but has enough sizing/toughness to handle me getting it wet. ( I think I am a Canson fanboy since they own arches as well, but I just got some Fabriano #140 )

                #1210427
                Grainne
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                    I’ve always invested in the best of watercolor papers because I consider it the most important element in the success and the enjoyment of watercolor painting . . . brushes and paint coming in second and third (as long as the paint has dependable lightfastness.) I prefer, and do indeed use artist quality paint, but if I had to choose between Cotman watercolors and good watercolor paper, I would choose the paper . . . although I have to say that Cotman is probably the only student grade paint I would want to use. Some of my favorite older paintings were painted with mostly Cotman paints, and there has been no appreciable depreciation in their coloration.

                    That being said, recently I was researching a cheaper paper for teaching younger students so that they could have a good experience in learning and skill development, yet I wanted to feel that the paper wasn’t so precious that they couldn’t do all the exercises needed to practice their skills.

                    I came across a recommendation for Super Bee watercolor paper.

                    Here’s the info:

                    100% Cotton Watercolor
                    Acid Free made by Aquabee
                    100% cotton, neutral pH (acid free) cold pressed watercolor sheets are an excellent value. Quality is equal to European-imported sheets; however, the Aquabee watercolor paper is priced right for everyday use by the student to professional watercolorist! An often overlooked aspect of Bee watercolor paper is its ability to accept an incredible range of mixed mixed media, both wet and dry. It comes in 90# and 140#

                    I sent away for a 9×12 pad of the 140# so that I could try it out and was shocked to find out how much I enjoyed painting on it. So now I am a happy teacher! :) I got this pad at Amazon for $7.80 with free shipping with my Amazon Prime. You can get it at the other online suppliers like Blicks, Cheap Joe’s, etc., but it costs much more.

                    After testing it out, I ordered packs for my students of 50 sheets of 6×9 for $19.00, so they have 100 fronts and backs to work with. :)

                    You can read the review on Amazon.

                    Grainne

                    Día Beannacht Leat :)

                    #1210431
                    JPQ
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                        I used one student stuff by Fabriano only problem dont work best possible way when i use muchwater. at least to me feels clearly better than this Canson Montval. and this Fabriano productis i think their Studio range…
                        ps.i dont talk now how archival paper is etc only features which matters most when learing.

                        #1210419
                        Neeman
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                            Although a lot of professional artist use it
                            Top is Bockingford
                            In a multitude of weights from 90 to 250 lbs

                            Then Strathmore 400
                            Then W/N Cotman

                            Bottom and last is the Cason Montval, not worth it

                            #1210441
                            janinco
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                                I use a lot of Fabriano 11″ x 14″ sheets in a 10-pack set. I don’t have to take time to tear or cut. I mark off an 8″ x 10″ opening and it pops right into an 11″ x 14″ frame when done with an inexpensive mat. It’s top quality paper and can be painted on both sides. Student/Academic grade papers were very frustrating when I was starting out. It’s better to give up a Starbucks a few times a week and get the better paper :)

                                Fabriano Artistico Small Sheet Packs

                                Jan

                                #1210429
                                Pars
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                                    I second Bockingford, quite a good quality paper and has a nice surface. It also comes in various colours these days.

                                    Although a lot of professional artist use it
                                    Top is Bockingford
                                    In a multitude of weights from 90 to 250 lbs

                                    Then Strathmore 400
                                    Then W/N Cotman

                                    Bottom and last is the Cason Montval, not worth it

                                    Zoe

                                    #1210443
                                    Nalatu
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                                        It’s better to give up a Starbucks a few times a week and get the better paper.

                                        I wonder who first came up with the “If you want more money, stop buying Starbucks” thing. I’ve never had Starbucks even once in my life and I still don’t have enough money to buy artist grade supplies. Most of the supplies I have were given as gifts. If I had to fund my own art, I wouldn’t be painting at all, I would be drawing with a #2 pencil on Walmart receipts and medical bill envelopes. (Okay, I’m not actually that poor, but $10 for a sketchbook still makes me cringe.) Not to mention that to a person on a tight budget, painting is in the same category as Starbucks – an unnecessary expense that can’t be cut out because you weren’t spending money on it to begin with.

                                        That’s why I’m making a lot of “best cheap ____” threads. I know how frustrating it is when you want to try a sport or hobby but everyone basically tells you that if you can’t get the expensive stuff, you might as well not bother. And it’s not just art, either. Last year I wanted to get a bike, so I researched beforehand to see what I could get. No matter what site I went on, they all said that a ride on a bike from Walmart would bring so much misery into my life that I would soon curse the day that I had bought it. (Or something like that; I’m paraphrasing.)

                                        There’s been a lot of effort put into comparing papers, brushes, and paint to find the best artist grade brands. There haven’t been nearly as many for student grade supplies. What we need are some fair evaluations of cheaper supplies that say, “This paper isn’t good for _____, but you can work around that by _____.”

                                        #1210430
                                        karenlee
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                                            Well, you can work around the faults of inexpensive (wood pulp) paper by making your own rag paper….

                                            #1210449
                                            briantmeyer
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                                                The priority order should not be 3 items, it should be 4

                                                1. Mileage
                                                2. Paper
                                                3. Brushes
                                                4. Paint

                                                Using the best is important, but it’s wrong to assume you “Always” have to use the very best, you just need some mileage on the best and quite a bit of your mileage is more about time spent mixing colors and drawing and designing. The best needs to be in the mix somewhere, so you learn about it, but it does not have to be exclusively one brand if you are painting a lot.

                                                One nice brush, one tube of artist grade paint for a key color, and one parent sheet of 100% cotton rag paper occasionally are just not that much money, especially if you are mostly getting student grade. Unlike those who never use anything else, you will know exactly why 100% rag paper is better very quickly and that is a good thing to know. Once you know you can choose the best paper for the project you are doing.

                                                ( I even find the different high end papers are better suited to different things, it helps to have experience using a wide variety of materials and substrates, it means your choices are educated and not based solely on hearsay about something being the best. )

                                                #1210444
                                                Nalatu
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                                                    Agreed. Nothing has helped me more than learning to draw and painting without regard for wasting supplies. Still working on those two, but I’ve improved more from practice than from upgrading to artist grade supplies.

                                                    #1210442
                                                    janinco
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                                                        Nalatu, believe it or not I have never had a Starbucks coffee…in fact I haven’t had any coffee for over 40 years. I don’t eat out, I buy my clothes at thrift stores, and I live on a very tight budget because of high medical expenses. But I still set aside a small amount each month to get get better quality paper (and brushes and paint as I can afford it).

                                                        I started out with Michaels’ Artist Loft paper and Prang watercolor paints. There’s nothing wrong with that but like I said, it was very frustrating to try to get decent results. I can practice drawing, composition, values, etc on typing paper. But when I’m really trying to produce a quality piece that I will hang on the wall or give as a gift, it really does make a difference to have the higher quality paper.

                                                        I have gotten many supplies by bartering or watching for estate sales and Craigslist posts where art supplies are mentioned. I even as the hobby stores if they have any damaged paper they can sell really cheap. At least I can learn how the paper handles water and pigment.

                                                        I’m not a rich hobbyist with plenty of expendable income. But most of us can find a way to make up the difference ($3 or $4 for a full-size sheet) to get the better quality paper if it’s important. Perhaps to beginners it is not a priority yet. You can go to Amazon or the online art stores and read reviews on all the different papers. I have tried a wide variety of student/academic papers and can’t recommend any of them. Hopefully some of the recommendations here will work well for you.

                                                        Jan

                                                        #1210450
                                                        briantmeyer
                                                        Default

                                                            There is a huge difference between using a set of paints that costs $5 for an entire 16 color set and getting tubes that cost $4.99 a tube, both at Michael’s using their ever present sales. There is just not as big of a difference between using those $4.99 tubes and using tubes that run $9.99.

                                                            There is also a big difference between using budget papers and ones that are higher end “student grade”. If I can get good results on paper at Walmart, I say that is a good thing, not needing advice about how it doesn’t work. The compliments I get on my work has no relationship to the paper used, often it’s my cheapest paper on which the real gems happen, and that happens to be still 100% acid free. Once my work is selling I’ll make sure it’s on paper that will last millenia instead of just a hundred years.

                                                            If you are using “GOOD” student grade, you are getting close to artist grade. It is lightfast paint, is used by professional artists for works sold in galleries, and lists the pigments used. There is a huge difference between cotman and van gogh and a brand like reeves.

                                                            There is a difference between budget papers which are not acid free, have terrible sizing. There is also a difference between 100% cotton rag paper. If you have limited money, you just cannot paint every day on the 100% cotton. I know artists who are worried about where they are going to live next month, who are choosing to buy that set of reeves for $5 instead of eating dinner, who just aren’t going to get “artist grade”, who when they go to starbucks ask for water.

                                                            If you are using budget paints for elementary students, or budget student grade paint, most of which isn’t light fast, does not mark the pigments used, and has lots of chalky fillers, even then it’s worthwhile practice. I had about $12, got a set of reeves and a set of junky craft brushes, and was starting my journey, and I worked on upgrading as I went slowly.

                                                            Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. The emphasis is on “what you can afford” and assuming everyone can just skip “starbucks” and get the “best” out there does not respect the reality of having a tight budget, it’s based on their reality not yours. Once you start thinking that we just have to find a “way” to afford something that is $4 or $5 you have to remember that this is a choice that is possibly taking away from other responsibilities like finding a way to feed yourself, your kids, or pay for medications. There are things that are just more important than our wants.

                                                            I know a few millionaire’s, from my experience they revel in using non-name brand products and saving a few dollars, but do so in an educated manner. I can assure you if they knew they could get PR101 in a tube that costs half as much but works at 90% as well, and that other major artists are using such for work they are selling, they would not care too much about if it says “artist grade” on it.

                                                            But then this means those of us who’ve figured this out to recommend these almost good alternatives, so they know that PR101 is good, but PG18 is not good for example in that particular brand. We already do this for artist grade paints, we all decry PR83 and Aureolin and certain brands version of a given pigment. By doing this for student grade materials we are helping those who are on a budget still get some level of quality, while still not forcing them to sacrifice other things for their art.

                                                            My thought is that by combining all levels, by finding the student grade stuff that is almost artist grade, and by also noting which artist grade is actually budget grade, we can get more good art done. Sure if you are using “bad” materials you cannot learn, but then having almost artist grade and spending a tenth as much on it, you can learn what you need to just as well, get more practice done, and occasionally use the good stuff so you learn why it’s better.

                                                            The thing I’ve noticed about those who only use arches, who only use Daniel Smith or some other particular brand, who only use this or that “best”, they don’t really know why as that is all they’ve ever used. Nothing wrong with that, but we have to respect the fact each artist has a right to go their own way.

                                                            #1210420
                                                            Neeman
                                                            Default

                                                                Natasha
                                                                orders of importance have been covered in your student paint question

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