Home Forums Explore Media Watercolor The Learning Zone Opinions on 300lb paper

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 56 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #992708
    jpa66
    Default

        I’d like to know what 300lb paper people like to use. I ask this because I just recently used some Fabriano Rough 300lb, and found it not all that great – it was difficult to move a wash, I got a lot of granularity (I realize that it’s Rough) and it really soaked up the paint strokes (even when already wet). I’m not going to give up on it, as I know that it’s going to perform differently than lighter weight paper.

        I have used Arches 300lb paper, and found it more to my liking than the Fabriano, but I wasn’t doing any large-area washes on it, and not much wet in wet. I do have some Kilimangaro 300lb paper that I plan on trying soon – so I’ll have another one to check out.

        Regardless, I’d just to know others’ thoughts on this matter.

        Thanks,
        Jan

        #1220047
        virgil carter
        Default

            I haven’t used Fabriano, but rough is rough, and the paper’s high and low points always tend to trap wet washes.

            I’ve used Kilimanjaro 300-pound cold-press paper for a long, long time and will be interested in your experience with it. Works for me!

            IIRC, Cheap Joes and perhaps some other Internet retailers offer trial packs of paper from a range of manufacturers. If you haven’t tried these it may be helpful.

            Sling paper,
            Virgil

            Sling paint,
            Virgil Carter
            http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

            #1220065

            It is not just you that found Fabriano not that great ( in fact not good at all). Same happened to me and I think that Fabriano has downgraded (for some unknown reason) its quality. Don’t bother with this paper any more and try something different. Arches is good but overpriced for what it offers but there other countless other brands to try on.

            #1220049
            Cyntada
            Default

                That’s sad to hear, I quite liked the Fabriano Rough in 140lb in my last sketchbook. Hope they are not downgrading all their quality.

                CK =)
                I take great comfort in knowing that my genuine typos will probably be blamed on some device's autocorrect. :angel:
                DIY art supplies, sketches, and more: cyntada.com / @cyntada
                #1220040
                pjartwc
                Default

                    I’m not a 300lb paper person. Tried a few and didn’t like. I’m not that impressed with the 200 lb. I’ll stick with the 140lb, thank you very much!

                    C&C WELCOMED

                    Jan

                    #1220031

                    Jan,
                    I am one of those people who doesn’t like 300 lb paper in any brand. I remember I was excited to try it when I won a full sheet of Arches in a little grab bag we had at the WC Meet in Tennessee a couple of years ago.

                    I was so surprised when I began painting on it. It felt like I was painting on blotting paper. :eek:

                    I have discovered that my favorite weight is anything in the 200 lb range (some manufacturers made 220 lb, for instance). It is a lovely weight that has some of the features people like in 300 lb, but it feels similar to 140 lb as you work on it rather than blotting paper.

                    Why not give a sheet of 200 lb paper a try and see what you think. The brand I used was Hahnemuhle, but others are making it now as well.

                    Sylvia

                    #1220066

                    That’s sad to hear, I quite liked the Fabriano Rough in 140lb in my last sketchbook. Hope they are not downgrading all their quality.

                    Any Fabriano that I bought the last six months was crap and as you see is not just me that had this problem.

                    Perhaps is a matter of batch. :confused: Who knows…
                    In any case when I mailed them didn’t bother to reply so -and as I spent a serious amount for their paper- I’m not intended to buy anything from them again..

                    #1220034

                    Simply stating that a particular brand of paper is awful, really isn’t helpful to anyone. Explaining WHY you thought is was awful is certainly more meaningful.

                    I, personally, don’t much care for 300# paper in any brand because the paper seems to absorb water too much and seems to dry unevenly. I don’t paint using a lot of wet-in-wet passages, so the problem may be due to my style.

                    I do like Arches 140# rough. The tooth seems to make the paper heavier than it is and a lot of textural elements are possible. I bought a roll of this paper and it really is one of my favourites because I can now paint larger compositions!

                    The Centre where I teach provides Saunders Waterford 200# cold press paper for our Students. It has a minor tooth and is very warm white. While it’s not my personal favourite because of this, it is a good sturdy paper that’s easy to paint on and really doesn’t buckle much.

                    I have tried the Saunders 140# cold pressed also. It’s a nice paper that’s a little whiter than their 200# paper.

                    Arches 140# cold pressed has a nice tooth and is a really sturdy paper to work on. It can take a lot of lifting without seeming to abrade the surface. I recommend it to my own Students from my home classes. It has become more expensive to buy, recently, and we watch for sales.

                    I tried painting on Winsor & Newton’s 140# cold pressed and didn’t care for the slick surface at all. It definitely seems to have a right and wrong side which I also didn’t much care for. It is a nice white, though.

                    I bought a LOT of Fabriano Artistico 140# cold pressed because of a great online sale. It took a little “getting used to” when I first began painting on it and was worried that I’d made a mistake. It’s a challenge when glazing because paint lifts so easy from the slick surface. And there isn’t much tooth. My Students are using it also because it was such a bargain and they can paint without fear of wasting money. We’ve all grown to really like this paper.

                    The long and short of it is that you really need to try paper to see if it meets your needs. While I don’t much care for painting on 300# paper, many others wouldn’t use anything else.

                    Char --

                    CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

                    #1220072
                    jpa66
                    Default

                        Thanks for the opinions, everyone. I still like the 300lb stuff (just not so sure about the Fabriano paper I have, but we’ll see), and I’m going to try more experimentation with it.

                        Painterbear: I do have Saunders 200lb paper, and I love it! It seems to possess all of the things I like about 140 lb paper, with none of the drawbacks (the lighter weight). It seems like you can only get it in CP in the US, but I actually ordered some 200lb rough from England, but have yet to use it (still being new to watercolor – and painting in general – I need to get a better feel for the rough surface stuff). I’ve not yet tried any of their extra-white paper, though.

                        I may someday try Saunders 300lb to see what that’s like.

                        #1220042
                        Marcio C
                        Default

                            I don’t know what Fabriano was like in the past, but a few years ago a got a sample pack from Cheap Joe’s and tried the different surfaces and weights and liked them all. I also paint on Arches and Saunders, but have been using Fabriano more and more and continue to like it. I have not bought 300lb sheets though. I have bought 140lb sheets and blocks. I use hot press for portraits and cold press and rough for landscapes. I find it works well with the way I paint, the paint moves easily across the surface and retain a brighter color than when I paint on Arches.

                            I like Arches enough, except for the smell of wet Arches. But somehow I get better results with Fabriano, and it is cheaper too.

                            I like Saunders 140lb a lot, but it is a little too yellow, and some sheets can be very absorbent.

                            #1220059
                            briantmeyer
                            Default

                                Arches and Fabriano use different sizing, arches uses “Gelatin”. Gelatin is also basically the same stuff used in what’s called “animal glue”, a very old adhesive, and it’s what is causing that smell.

                                Fabriano uses an entirely synthetic sizing ( which makes their paper one of the few which is animal free ).

                                I suspect the gelatin sizing in arches, along with the high quality long fibers, help keep this paper so strong despite any abuse, remember gelatin sizing is also used as a glue. Other papers just don’t seem to be as tough, but then I’ve been learning how to work in a way that does not require as much abuse of the paper as I work so have been able to use a wider variety of paper.

                                However another purpose of sizing is to keep the pigment on the surface of the paper, which you’ll notice that on fabriano it’s easier to lift staining pigments (especially before they’ve fully dried and set into the paper ) which indicates the sizing is actually working better. It counteracts the blotting the paper wants to do, which requires the artist use more pigment.

                                Other high end papers like Garza Papel have a much stronger blotting effect, are much less capable of handling abuse, result in duller colors overall, but they are still a wonderful platform for watercolors to play one. I’ve done some of my best pieces on this paper.

                                Another paper called “Whatcom” was used by Wyeth and Turner which is extra “hard” sized, it allows much brighter colors and really prevents much of anything getting thru. ( It’s discontinued but St. Cuthberts/Inverness that makes Saunders Waterford has a line of paper called Millford designed to replicate it )

                                I also heard from the demonstration yesterday by Shuang Li, that she feels 300# papers actually absorb much more pigment and have a stronger blotting effect so she prefers 140#. She says it uses up more paint to get the same effect. This blotting might be what is going on with this 300# paper. You might want to compare to 140# paper. This is something I am going to have to get some samples and figure out a way of testing.

                                #1220043
                                alansam
                                Default

                                    I don’t like metal rollers that leave dimples and fill with colour in a wash , like fabriano.,but the latest bockingford rough 140 lbs I bought ,seemed like one side was rolled with a dimpled metal roller, I was wondering if the felt roller was get a bit worn and the metal ones last longer ,hence the change .. also I notice a sheet . can revert back to the roller bend it was cut from .especial when dampened . please contradict me if I am completely wrong ,
                                    because I probably am.

                                    #1220053
                                    DaveCrow
                                    Default

                                        I tried Arches 300# Rough for a wet-in-extremely-wet workshop. I hated the stuff! It was like painting on cardboard or blotter paper.

                                        I have tried Fabriano 140# CP and find that it has a “softer” feel than Arches. The paint seems to flow more across the surface of the Arches. Arches is like a ball rolling on pavement, Fabriano the same ball rolling on short cropped grass.

                                        "Let the paint be paint" --John Marin

                                        #1220051
                                        juliet45
                                        Default

                                            I like 300lb paper. My favourites are Arches HP and Fabriano HP but I have not bought any recently. I think it depends on the way you work with watercolour. A paper that suits one person will not suit another.

                                            Irena

                                            #1220055
                                            SteveBerry
                                            Default

                                                What I’m curious about is why it suits you. What way do you paint, that makes it a good fit for you? For those of us who don’t use 300 lb paper, it’s sort of a mystery. ????

                                              Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 56 total)
                                              • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.