WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > The Town Center > Café Guerbois
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #106   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2019, 02:12 PM
Artyczar Artyczar is offline
A Local Legend
Joshua Tree, California
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,216
 
Hails from United States
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

Bonham blows Moon out of the water. Sorry Musket. But you are right about Starr not getting the credit he deserves. Being "good" does not mean having licks and being flashy. Being good means playing the best part for the song, and in that respect, Ringo Starr might just be one of the best drummers in the world.
Reply With Quote
  #107   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2019, 02:51 PM
ianuk's Avatar
ianuk ianuk is offline
A WC! Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,751
 
Hails from England
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

Ringo narrates Thomas the Tank well.
Reply With Quote
  #108   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2019, 04:03 PM
musket's Avatar
musket musket is offline
A WC! Legend
Grafton, NH
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 23,066
 
Hails from United States
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyczar
Bonham blows Moon out of the water. Sorry Musket. But you are right about Starr not getting the credit he deserves. Being "good" does not mean having licks and being flashy. Being good means playing the best part for the song, and in that respect, Ringo Starr might just be one of the best drummers in the world.

So did Ginger Baker (and Buddy Rich blows them all outta the water). I don't think anyone has ever claimed that Moon was the greatest technical drummer in the world. I never said so.

But what you said about Ringo can be just as easily said of him, except for the fact that Moon's job wasn't just to be the timekeeper. He was actually playing lead drums, same as Entwistle was playing lead bass and Pete was playing lead guitar (it can be argued that given what came next in rock, Pete was one of the most influential guitarists in rock history). Moon never took a solo; he hated them. He avoided the hi hat like plague, which is not exactly standard technique. Supposedly he never practiced. It's hard to see how anybody could have practiced that stuff.

He was unique, and uniquely suited to the Who.
__________________
We cannot define anything precisely. If we attempt to, we get into that paralysis of thought that comes to philosophers, who sit opposite each other, one saying to the other, "You don't know what you are talking about!". The second one says, "What do you mean by know? What do you mean by talking? What do you mean by you? ~R.P. Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #109   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2019, 05:53 PM
stlukesguild's Avatar
stlukesguild stlukesguild is online now
A WC! Legend
A large urban setting in the Mid-West
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,458
 
Hails from United States
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

Musket, I would never go to the level of suggesting The Who had but three great songs. On the other hand, I wouldn't overestimate them. They don't come near to the level of the Stones, Dylan, or even The Kinks, Led Zeppelin, CCR, and Pink Floyd with regard to the sheer volume of great music they recorded... let alone The Beatles.

Look at their discography:



My Generation was a truly spectacular first LP: Out in the Street, The Good's Gone, My Generation, Much Too Much, The Kids Are Alright... all performed with an incredible raw energy.



But this...? Sheer crap.



Their third album, Sell Out, was a great improvement... how could it not be? The concept was great... and then it all fell apart. Beside I Can See for Miles what were the great songs? The paean to self-love, Mary Anne With the Shaky Hand?

Then comes Tommy...



This was to have been their masterpiece... a true rock opera. Now admittedly true operas have narratives that are a bit stupid at times... but the narrative here is absolutely ridiculous... Pete and his self-gratification again? Even so, there are several great... or at least very good songs: Pinball Wizard, I'm Free, maybe Christmas... and the Overture/Underture? They sound much better performed on Live at Leeds.



Who's Next is the one undisputed masterpiece with one great song after another: Baba O'Riley, Bargain, Love Ain't for Keeping, Behind Blue Eyes, Won't Get Fooled Again, etc...



With Quadrophenia, Pete tried the idea of a rock opera again. It may have even been more successful than Tommy... but not much so. There are three truly great songs here: The Real Me, 5:15, and Love Reign O'er Me... but there's also a lot of filler.



Slip Kid and Squeeze Box... did I forget anything?



Keith's Last LP. Sister Disco and Trick of the Light are quite good. Who Are You? verges on great.



The cover was better than the music. You Better, You Bet, and Another Tricky Day were good... but "great"?



A descent "last" LP before they "retired". Athena, Emminence Front, and especially I've Known No War were quite good.

Should we even mention Endless Wire... recorded/released 24 years after the band had retired?



I agree that The Who were a brilliant live band and Live at Leeds is one of the finest live recordings from the Rock era.

A very good band... at their finest (My Generation, Who's Next, and Live At Leeds) they were brilliant... but a hell of a lot of recorded stuff that was well below their finest.
__________________
Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
"Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi

Last edited by stlukesguild : 07-28-2019 at 05:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #110   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2019, 06:01 PM
Keith Russell's Avatar
Keith Russell Keith Russell is offline
A WC! Legend
Lenexa, Kansas, USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 34,374
 
Hails from United States
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyczar
Bonham blows Moon out of the water. Sorry Musket. But you are right about Starr not getting the credit he deserves. Being "good" does not mean having licks and being flashy. Being good means playing the best part for the song, and in that respect, Ringo Starr might just be one of the best drummers in the world.

The older I get, the more I hate the notion that art is a competition.

Moon wouldn't have fit in Zeppelin any more than Bonham would have fit in the Who (And I think Bonham and Moon would have been wasted in the Beatles.)


Moon and Bonham were both perfect for the bands they were in; the Who and Zep were quite different from each other, and neither band--and neither drummer--sucked.

At a certain "level", there is no "good", "better", or "best".
__________________
Forcing the waveform to collapse for nearly two decades...
http://www.syntheticskystudios.com
Oddities & Curiosities, Dallas, March 2019, Minneapolis, June 2019, Kansas City, August 2019
Reply With Quote
  #111   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2019, 06:09 PM
Keith Russell's Avatar
Keith Russell Keith Russell is offline
A WC! Legend
Lenexa, Kansas, USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 34,374
 
Hails from United States
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

Many critics were saying, in the mid-to-late '80s, that Townshend was saving his best songs for his solo work, and The Who was getting only second-rate stuff.

So, is this the best Who album the band was never allowed to record?

It is a wonderful album, from start to finish...
__________________
Forcing the waveform to collapse for nearly two decades...
http://www.syntheticskystudios.com
Oddities & Curiosities, Dallas, March 2019, Minneapolis, June 2019, Kansas City, August 2019
Reply With Quote
  #112   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2019, 06:09 PM
musket's Avatar
musket musket is offline
A WC! Legend
Grafton, NH
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 23,066
 
Hails from United States
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

The game of comparing, ahem, who to whom is largely a waste of time.

The Beatles were without a doubt the greatest studio band in rock history. The Stones, well I liked them when I was a teenager, and I appreciate a lot of their later stuff, but they sucked live every time I saw them, and ditto Led Zep . I never really got Led Zep. Okay, they were innovative, but Page was a sloppy guitar player and Plant sounded like a cat in heat.

The Who were above all a live band. Anyone who didn't actually catch their act in their prime just doesn't know. The amount of sheer, on the edge of violence raw energy coming out of them was unparalleled in my experience (keep iin mind that my best friend was head usher at the Fillmore East; I got in free whenever I wanted).

We can go on like this forever.

I don't think that the volume of a band's output necessarily has anything to do with anything. How many hits did the Zombies have? Not many. But She's Not There is still one of the coolest songs of the era. How many hits did the Left Banke have? Two. Yet Walk Away Renee is still number one on my list of great heartbreak songs (that being said, For Nothing is the grimmest, bleakest heartbreak song of all time... I've been there).

Also, let us never forget that the Beatles had a not so secret weapon.
__________________
We cannot define anything precisely. If we attempt to, we get into that paralysis of thought that comes to philosophers, who sit opposite each other, one saying to the other, "You don't know what you are talking about!". The second one says, "What do you mean by know? What do you mean by talking? What do you mean by you? ~R.P. Feynman

Last edited by musket : 07-28-2019 at 06:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #113   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2019, 06:41 PM
stlukesguild's Avatar
stlukesguild stlukesguild is online now
A WC! Legend
A large urban setting in the Mid-West
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,458
 
Hails from United States
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

Yoko?
__________________
Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
"Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi
Reply With Quote
  #114   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2019, 07:12 PM
ianuk's Avatar
ianuk ianuk is offline
A WC! Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,751
 
Hails from England
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
Yoko?

Oh no!
Reply With Quote
  #115   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2019, 07:54 PM
stlukesguild's Avatar
stlukesguild stlukesguild is online now
A WC! Legend
A large urban setting in the Mid-West
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,458
 
Hails from United States
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

__________________
Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
"Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi
Reply With Quote
  #116   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2019, 09:10 PM
musket's Avatar
musket musket is offline
A WC! Legend
Grafton, NH
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 23,066
 
Hails from United States
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

Hardly.
__________________
We cannot define anything precisely. If we attempt to, we get into that paralysis of thought that comes to philosophers, who sit opposite each other, one saying to the other, "You don't know what you are talking about!". The second one says, "What do you mean by know? What do you mean by talking? What do you mean by you? ~R.P. Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #117   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2019, 10:29 PM
caldwell.brobeck's Avatar
caldwell.brobeck caldwell.brobeck is offline
Immortalized
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,454
 
Hails from Canada
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

Of all the popular music groups I saw, particularly in the 60s when a lot of them came through DC, there’s just one that really stood out for me. And that was James Brown. I saw him at the Howard Theater in, IIRC, 1968. of course it helps that I do love his music, but on stage the guy was the consummate professional, and he did go all out for his audience. It was hard to pay good money for typical top-40 bands after that.

Cheers,
Chris
__________________
C&C of all sorts always welcome! (I don't mind rude or harsh criticism.)
I suppose I have to do this too (my blog, & current work). My Visual Arts Nova Scotia page.
Art is the most intense mode of individualism that the world has known - Oscar Wilde
The primary palette: Attention, observation, memory, imagination, integration, execution
Reply With Quote
  #118   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-29-2019, 05:15 AM
ianuk's Avatar
ianuk ianuk is offline
A WC! Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,751
 
Hails from England
Re: Is money the only measure of the value of a work of art??

I worked with Roger Daltrey during the filming of 'Buddy's song', in the Thames Valley.
He arrived in a helicopter filmed for about an hour. Played cards with the crew and left leaving me 20 pounds poorer. I got on pretty well with him, we're both working class and have a dislike of the upper classes. It wasn't the best film, fun to do though.

Last edited by ianuk : 07-29-2019 at 05:17 AM.
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:38 PM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.