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  • #994478
    bill hansen
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        Can someone recommend a good heavy paper with moderate tooth, in white or other very light color? Fabriano Hot Press was recommended on one site, but I wonder how well I’d like it, since it’s a watercolor paper. (I have some, but I’m trying to decide whether to return it, so I don’t want to open the shrink wrap.)

        I’m a relative newcomer to CPs, having begun about 5 months ago. I’m flailing around a bit, trying to find a paper I like. I originally used Stonehenge Lightweight 135 gsm paper, which is lighter weight than I’d like. I’ve also tried Bristol 100 lb vellum, which is heavier but is way too smooth – not much tooth at all. I’ve tried Canson Recycled Bristol 96 lb, which has a better tooth and is heavier but still allows only limited layering. On the Canson Bristol I’ve used BrushAndPencil Textured Fixativ with fairly good results, allowing more layers than the paper alone, without darkening or discoloring the work.

        I think I’d prefer a paper with a little more tooth, but I wonder if watercolor paper is a bit too Toothy for me. What are my alternatives?

        #1258691

        Unfortunately thre is no solution for hta tdilema other than trying. I for once think bristol Smooth already has enough teeth for the way I draw :)

        I would add to your list Arches Hot pressed. It is not super white, but it has a more firm tooth than fabriano.

        "no no! You are doing it all wrong, in the internet we are supposed to be stubborn, inflexible and arrogant. One cannot simply be suddenly reasonable and reflexive in the internet, that breaks years of internet tradition as a medium of anger, arrogance, bigotry and self entitlement. Damm these internet newcomers being nice to to others!!!"

        "If brute force does not solve your problem, then you are not using enough!"

        #1258700
        bill hansen
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            Thanks. I see that the Arches is a watercolor paper, so I think you’re saying that watercolor papers can work well with CPs.

            Thanks again – Bill

            #1258690
            ocmd123
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                Hot press watercolor paper works very well. It takes a good number of layers, and leaves a nice smooth finish. I like Bristol smooth, too, but the tooth disappears very quickly.

                ELAINE~ Moderator-Colored Pencil Forum ~ [FONT=Times New Roman]New to the forum? Visit the Welcome Thread ~ [FONT=Times New Roman]New to CP? Check out the CP Libray Index for information about about pencils, paper, sharpeners.[FONT=Times New Roman]
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                #1258701
                bill hansen
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                    Thanks. That helps, and it’s reassuring. I guess I’ll try the pad of Fabriano Artistico I ordered, not realizing it was intended for watercolor. I was getting buyer’s remorse, wondering if I should return it.

                    #1258698
                    otherworlder
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                        Hot press watercolor paper is absolutely great for colored pencils! I love Fabriano Artistico.

                        #1258702
                        bill hansen
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                            Perfect – thanks! Hoping I get time with my pencils today, I’ll break out the Fabriano! – Bill

                            #1258695
                            smudged-blue
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                                I personally like Arches medium cold press 300lb watercolor paper. It gives nice rich colors (I’m using primacolor premier colored pencils) and won’t warp after many layers like other surfaces I’ve tried.

                                I’ve been using colored pencils for over 5 years now and have only just now found this surface (about 8 months ago), which is by far my preferred surface for CP. I do very detailed realistic wildlife and pet pieces.
                                It can take trying many different surfaces to find what works for you and the techniques you use.

                                Just a little tip, if the front side of any paper doesn’t feel so great to work on, flip it over and try the backside of it. Thats how I’m using Arches because I find the front to textured, but the backside is spot on for me (as silly as it sounds) I use to do that with canson mi-teintes pastel paper also.

                                Sonia.
                                My photos available as reference
                                "Life isn't about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself." ~ George Bernard Shaw.

                                #1258692

                                I personally like Arches medium cold press 300lb watercolor paper. It gives nice rich colors (I’m using primacolor premier colored pencils) and won’t warp after many layers like other surfaces I’ve tried.

                                I’ve been using colored pencils for over 5 years now and have only just now found this surface (about 8 months ago), which is by far my preferred surface for CP. I do very detailed realistic wildlife and pet pieces.
                                It can take trying many different surfaces to find what works for you and the techniques you use.

                                Just a little tip, if the front side of any paper doesn’t feel so great to work on, flip it over and try the backside of it. Thats how I’m using Arches because I find the front to textured, but the backside is spot on for me (as silly as it sounds) I use to do that with canson mi-teintes pastel paper also.

                                almost everyone that uses arches for drawing, be colored pencil or graphite or carbon uses the back side. The only bad thing about arches is that it is not really white.

                                "no no! You are doing it all wrong, in the internet we are supposed to be stubborn, inflexible and arrogant. One cannot simply be suddenly reasonable and reflexive in the internet, that breaks years of internet tradition as a medium of anger, arrogance, bigotry and self entitlement. Damm these internet newcomers being nice to to others!!!"

                                "If brute force does not solve your problem, then you are not using enough!"

                                #1258703
                                bill hansen
                                Default

                                    Smudged-blue – the *cold* press Arches, right? The impression I got from reading is that cold press papers have mountainous “tooth”, while hot press papers have less tooth. Whatever you’ve settled on, I’m sure I’ll try it as my present supply of colored pencil papers dwindles down – but that may be a few months. I have quite a collection of different kinds!

                                    I’m surprised at how relatively smooth my Fabriano Artistico is. It will be interesting to see how its tooth holds up after a few layers of color.

                                    tiago.dagostino – thanks for your observation also.

                                    Bill

                                    #1258694
                                    katwalk
                                    Default

                                        Paper is such a personal choice that in the end I fear you are just going to have to try different papers and chose what works best for you.

                                        I like hot press watercolor paper, but I do find the paper a bit “soft” under the pencil and some times prefer a harder surface. If you are in the US there are a couple of other paper options that you can try out if you want, both available on-line from Dick Blick or other on-line suppliers) Strathmore is making a new paper designed for colored pencils, Strathmore Colored Pencil, I have a pad of the 9 x 12 inch size, but am not sure what other sizes Strathmore is making. The paper has some tooth but is also a firm paper. That said it may not be as heavy as you would prefer being 100 lb or 153gm.

                                        Another option is Bee Paper Super Deluxe drawing paper, it comes in various sized pads is 93 lb or 150 gsm, though to me it actually feels heavier than the Strathmore Colored pencil paper. it is a lovely paper for pencil, I used it first with graphite, though it may not be white enough for you. The “color” is white, but not a bleached white.

                                        As for the surface texture of watercolor papers, there are 3 standard surfaces, but the exact surface will vary between manufactures, and between lines (100% cotton papers vs cheaper blends)

                                        Hot Press is literately just that, the paper has been “pressed” or rolled between hot rollers as a finishing step in the manufacture of the paper, this paper always has a smooth surface. I believe hot press is always a 100% cotton paper.

                                        Then there is cold press or not, this is paper off the rollers but not pressed, or if pressed not as firmly as the hot press, texture on this paper will vary between mfgs and type, some are smoother than others.
                                        This is the most common surface for watercolor paper and is used on both 100% cotton papers and the cheaper blended papers that can be found on the Market.

                                        Last there is Rough, and this paper is very rough indeed, some watercolor painters love it for the texture it gives their work and that water tends to go its own way on it. I can’t imagine using it for colored pencil, but I am willing to bet that there are some who have or will use it. Again exactly how rough the texture is will vary by Mfg. Again I think this surface is found only in 100% cotton papers.

                                        Watercolor papers also come typically in 3 weights 90lb, 140lb and 300lb. The 300lb being the stiffest and most expensive. Prepare for sticker shock if you want 300lb hot press paper. The most common weight is 140lb.

                                        Have fun exploring, and I hope you find one you can love.

                                        #1258704
                                        bill hansen
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                                            Thanks Kathy – So far, I know that I prefer the thicker papers, 160-300 lb. This is partly because I sometimes use a mineral slovent (Gamsol) to “paint” with my CPs, and also because I sometimes want to use Textured Fixative to enable more layers. I didn’t mention it, but I have used Bristol vellum 160 lb, and I like it.

                                            Today I tired out the Fabriano 140 lb Aquarelle (watercolor) paper. This paper came as a block, so (1) I don’t think it will buckle when it’s sprayed and (2) I hope the spray or the Gamsol don’t leak through. At first it seemed that the Fabriano wouldn’t might be too smooth, but it held up to several layers quite well.

                                            Out of curiosity I’m going to spray part of this unfinished practice piece, with Textured Fixative. With lighter papers, the fixative (any fixative) will cause serious buckling even if the paper is securely taped do a rigid support. With thicker papers, that has not happened to me.

                                            #1258696
                                            smudged-blue
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                                                Smudged-blue – the *cold* press Arches, right? The impression I got from reading is that cold press papers have mountainous “tooth”, while hot press papers have less tooth. Whatever you’ve settled on, I’m sure I’ll try it as my present supply of colored pencil papers dwindles down – but that may be a few months. I have quite a collection of different kinds!

                                                Yes, I’m using cold press Arches. Yes, it has much more texture then the hot press. I have hot press papers in other high quality brands and they sit unused as I run out of tooth to soon. Having more texture just works well for the way I create and build up my fur.
                                                I also chose to buy it in a large roll as I was wasting to much from sheets and pads by the time I cut them down to the sizes I wanted.
                                                I’m currently in the middle of a black leopard (on the cold press Arches) and have progress shots. I may show the artwork, haven’t really decided yet.

                                                Sonia.
                                                My photos available as reference
                                                "Life isn't about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself." ~ George Bernard Shaw.

                                                #1258699
                                                bill hansen
                                                Default

                                                    smudged-blue – Thanks again. I’ll look forward to trying some cold pressed paper as I get better at CP, and as I use up some of the several kinds of paper I now have. I do see your point – if you’re drawing/painting fur, more texture on the paper would help. I don’t think I’m ready for things of that complexity, for quite some time yet.

                                                    Bill

                                                    #1258697
                                                    smudged-blue
                                                    Default

                                                        smudged-blue – Thanks again. I’ll look forward to trying some cold pressed paper as I get better at CP, and as I use up some of the several kinds of paper I now have. I do see your point – if you’re drawing/painting fur, more texture on the paper would help. I don’t think I’m ready for things of that complexity, for quite some time yet.

                                                        Bill

                                                        Happy creating, with each artwork you will learn so much.

                                                        Sonia.
                                                        My photos available as reference
                                                        "Life isn't about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself." ~ George Bernard Shaw.

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