WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > The Town Center > WC Site Technical Discussions > PROJECT: Product Reviews
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-03-2002, 01:52 AM
scottb's Avatar
scottb scottb is offline
A Local Legend
Atlanta, GA
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,260
 
FOCUS GROUP: Brushes

My initial thoughts:

It doesn't make sense to load up each individual brush out there (we'd be here for 10 years just trying to do that!). Instead, my guess is that it will be easier to load up the "line" or "series" of brushes, by brand, and allow folks to rate those.

Example: Grumbacher Gainsborough Brushes

If a reviewer has something to say about a particular brush in the line being reviewed, they can bring this up in the text of their review.

You can see the initial category breakdown in the demo.

What we need to do is compile a solid list of the vendors, their brands, and which category they best fit into. If you can find vendor logos, product images, product descriptions, etc., post 'em here and I'll incorporate them into the review system. If you can't find product images of good quality, product descriptions, etc., or don't have the time, that's okay - just post the vendor/brand name here, and I'll research it.

The Current List

Here is the current list (which I will try to keep as up-to-date as possible):
  • Quality of Construction: poorly made or solid state?
  • Comfortability? How comfortable are these brushes to use?
  • Quality of fiber/hair
  • Value for the Money


Cheers.
Scott
__________________
B. Scott Burkett
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"

Last edited by scottb : 09-08-2002 at 05:47 PM.
  #2   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-03-2002, 10:36 AM
scottb's Avatar
scottb scottb is offline
A Local Legend
Atlanta, GA
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,260
 
**NOTE: I will keep this list as update as possible **

Finding information on the various lines of brushes out there is a difficult task. Most of the vendors (as you all know) have horriblly outdated web sites.

Some brands/lines that I know of (please provide corrections/additions!)

Daler-Rowney Robert Simmons Sapphire
Daler-Rowney Robert Simmons Signet
Daler-Rowney Robert Simmons Expression
Daler-Rowney Robert Simmons White Sable
Daler-Rowney Robert Simmons Sienna
Daler-Rowney Robert Simmons Skyscraper (Series 755)

Holbein Professional White Brushes

W&N Cirrus
W&N Sceter Gold
W&N Cotman
W&N University
W&N Water Color Brushes
W&N WInton
W&N Artisan
W&N Galeria
Loew Cornell Arttec White
Loew Cornell Arttec Red
Loew Cornell Bristle
Loew Cornell Classic Bristle
Loew Cornell Natural Hair
Loew Cornell Mixtique
Loew Cornell American Painter
Loew Cornell Comfort
Loew Cornell La Corneille Taklon

Grumbacher Gainsborough
Grumbacher Golden Edge
Grumbacher Finest Bristle
Grumbacher Academy

Silver Brush Limited: Grand Prix
Silver Brush Limited: Silverstone
Silver Brush Limited: Faye
Silver Brush Limited: Le Mans
Silver Brush Limited: Golden Natural
Silver Brush Limited: Ruby Satin
Silver Brush Limited: Renaissance
Silver Brush Limited: Silverwhite
Silver Brush Limited: Wash & Blend
Silver Brush Limited: Mops
Silver Brush Limited: Ultra Mini
Silver Brush Limited: Black Velvet
Silver Brush Limited: 7500
Silver Brush Limited: Premier
Silver Brush Limited: Silver Kolinsky

ABS Brushes: Kolinsky for Watercolour Series
ABS Brushes: Pure Red Sable for Watercolour Series
ABS Brushes: Pure Squirrels
ABS Brushes: Reflex
ABS Brushes: Golden Synthetic Nylon
ABS Brushes: Mongoose for Watercolours/Oils/Acrylics
ABS Brushes: Best Quality Bristle
ABS Brushes: Bristle
ABS Brushes: Bristle Stencil/Powder

Royal & Langnickel: Soft-Grip
Royal & Langnickel: Aqualon
Royal & Langnickel: Sunburst
Royal & Langnickel: Snowhite
Royal & Langnickel: White Taklon
Royal & Langnickel: Golden Taklon
Royal & Langnickel: Royal Knight
Royal & Langnickel: Doll Collection
Royal & Langnickel: Royal Garden
Royal & Langnickel: Nocturna
Royal & Langnickel: Combo
Royal & Langnickel: Pure Red Sable
Royal & Langnickel: Supreme
Royal & Langnickel: Regis

Other vendors/brands that I know of, but haven't broken down into lines/series yet:

Princeton
Dynasty
Nicole
Escoda
Isabey
Dick Blick
Borciani & Bonazzi (Italian brushes)
Carlo Kolloeffel (Italian)

Cheers.
Scott
__________________
B. Scott Burkett
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"

Last edited by scottb : 09-12-2002 at 11:58 PM.
  #3   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-03-2002, 10:38 AM
scottb's Avatar
scottb scottb is offline
A Local Legend
Atlanta, GA
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,260
 
Ideas for rating questions on brushes:

- Durability: how well does this brush hold up after continued use?
- Construction Quality: how well are they built? Do the bristles fall out? The ferrule break off? etc.
- Quality of fiber: How would you rate the quality of the hair/fiber in this line of brushes?
- Ease in Cleaning: Are they hard to clean?

I am far from being a brush expert - these may or may not be useful.

Cheers.
Scott
__________________
B. Scott Burkett
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
  #4   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-06-2002, 10:49 AM
scottb's Avatar
scottb scottb is offline
A Local Legend
Atlanta, GA
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,260
 
More thoughts. I have brush manufacturers. They seemingly cannot "keep it simple"!

I have yet to find an art supply manufacturer that actually has all of their products on their web site. There are a few that are close. Winsor & Newton has virtually no information on its brushes at all. Same for Daler-Rowney. Go figure.

So many brands, so many series/lines, and some brushes don't even appear in a series or line. Not sure what the best way to approach this is.

I don't want to put in every single brush as an individual item.

Also, I'm not sure my categories are accurate. There exists a lot of crossover in those categories. Some brushes are useful for oils and acrylics, for instance.

Thoughts welcome!

Cheers.
Scott
__________________
B. Scott Burkett
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
  #5   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-06-2002, 10:53 AM
DraigAthar's Avatar
DraigAthar DraigAthar is offline
Immortalized
Plainfield, NH
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,170
 
Hails from United States
How about Dick Blick's own line of brushes? There seems to be a lot of them, let me see if I can find a list.
__________________
I must create a system, or be enslav'd by another man's;
I will not reason and compare; my business is to create.
~ W. Blake
Thirdroar - My Portfolio.
  #6   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-06-2002, 11:15 AM
Wes Hyde's Avatar
Wes Hyde Wes Hyde is offline
Enthusiast
Arvada, CO
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,838
 
Hails from United States
I use the Winsor & Newton Cirrus, series 550, long handled, flat brushes almost exclusively in my painting. I have found that they are very durable and comfortable to paint with.

After use, I place the brush in a glass of turpenoid, and continue painting with another brush. When I'm finished painting--or when all my brushes are in the glass--I brush the bristles agains the side of the glass, squeezing the thinned paint out, then dry with a paper towel. After all the brushes are partially cleaned in this way I take them to the sink and use a mild soap such as Nutrogena to finish cleaning them, working the soap into the bristles and squeezing it out under a flow of warm water until the water runs clear.

I have used most of these brushes for two years and they show little wear. Rarely have I had a bristle fall out in a painting.

On a scale of 1 - 10, I'd rate them a 10.

http://www.artistscorner.co.uk/acata...shes__172.html

Wes
  #7   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-06-2002, 11:18 AM
scottb's Avatar
scottb scottb is offline
A Local Legend
Atlanta, GA
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,260
 
Of course, you'll have the chance to rate them officially in the new review system when we roll it out.

The question is: do we list the individual series, or the entire line? As some vendors do not seemingly break their brushes down into "lines" or "brands", this may be tough. This may be very much of a "hybrid" set of categories.

Also, we need input on those review questions, gang. What do we need to ask a reviewer when evaluating/rating a line of brushes?

For a detailed overview of the rating scheme we are using, see the thread entitled "Overview: Important Information".

Cheers.
Scott
__________________
B. Scott Burkett
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
  #8   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-06-2002, 11:20 AM
Wes Hyde's Avatar
Wes Hyde Wes Hyde is offline
Enthusiast
Arvada, CO
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,838
 
Hails from United States
OK, that link isn't working. Try Google: winsor newton cirrus
  #9   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-06-2002, 11:25 AM
Wes Hyde's Avatar
Wes Hyde Wes Hyde is offline
Enthusiast
Arvada, CO
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,838
 
Hails from United States
In Mr. Mom, Michael Keaton drives into the school to drop the kids off in the wrong direction. Everyone tells him, "You're doing it wrong."

I'm doing it wrong. LOL

OK, I think it would be difficult to rate an entire line, such as the Cirrus, since there are brushes made for watercolor and others made for oil, in the same line. I would say break it down into series where you can, and leave it in a line category where this would be impractical. Another question you might ask is if the brush is comfortable, which includes thickness and lenth of the handle.

Hope this helps,

Wes
  #10   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-06-2002, 11:47 AM
DraigAthar's Avatar
DraigAthar DraigAthar is offline
Immortalized
Plainfield, NH
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,170
 
Hails from United States
Quote:
Originally posted by scottb
Ideas for rating questions on brushes:

- Durability: how well does this brush hold up after continued use?
- Construction Quality: how well are they built? Do the bristles fall out? The ferrule break off? etc.
- Quality of fiber: How would you rate the quality of the hair/fiber in this line of brushes?
- Ease in Cleaning: Are they hard to clean?

Well, how detailed do you want to get?

Ferrules: Seamed or seamless? Aluminum, tin, or brass/copper? Is the crimping functional, or is it just decorative, with the ferrule only glued on?

Construction - machine made or hand made? Are the hairs cut at the tips to even the brush up?

Hairs and bristles - are they natural or synthetic? Are they what they claim to be, or are they a mix? Some sables, for example, are actually a mix of sable and dyed ox hair, or even dyed synthetics. And badger brushes aren't always made with badger hair anymore, so what might be called a 'badger brush' may not actually have any badger hair in it at all. For bristle brushes, do the bristles contain a lot of flags?

As for ease in cleaning, well I think that has more to do with your cleaning methods and materials than the brush itself.

Just thoughts off the top of my head.

Amy
__________________
I must create a system, or be enslav'd by another man's;
I will not reason and compare; my business is to create.
~ W. Blake
Thirdroar - My Portfolio.
  #11   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-06-2002, 01:26 PM
ellenf's Avatar
ellenf ellenf is offline
Senior Member
South Carolina
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 114
 
Hails from United States
DraigAtharmakes good points. I'm wondering if you need one review page for wc brushes and another for oils??? (Yeah. Leave it to me to complicate things.) I look for different handling qualities in the two. For instance, with a bristle brush for oils - how much scrubbing can it stand? With a sable for watercolors - does it carry a heavy load well and keep a fine point?

My favorite wc brush ever: http://www.cheapjoescatalog.com/cata...&pid=17&ppid=2

Good luck Scott. Thanks for keeping us involved.
__________________
Painting keeps me sane when it isn't making me crazy.
  #12   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-06-2002, 02:33 PM
scottb's Avatar
scottb scottb is offline
A Local Legend
Atlanta, GA
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,260
 
Good thoughts, Draig!

Quote:
Originally posted by DraigAthar

Well, how detailed do you want to get?


I want to get as detailed as possible, without getting scientifically "ridiculous" in the process.

Seriously, though, basically, I just want us all to throw out ideas, come up with an initial "list" of rating questions, and continue to refine our list until we feel that it is adequate. I don't want rating questions so complex that only 3 people in the world are actually qualified to fill out a review, but I don't want it to be so simple as to invite masses of unqualified people to review an item either.

Hope that makes sense - lol.

Keep those ideas coming!

Cheers.
Scott
__________________
B. Scott Burkett
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
  #13   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-06-2002, 02:35 PM
scottb's Avatar
scottb scottb is offline
A Local Legend
Atlanta, GA
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,260
 
Quote:
Originally posted by ellenf
DraigAtharmakes good points. I'm wondering if you need one review page for wc brushes and another for oils??? (Yeah. Leave it to me to complicate things.)


Actually, we have them split apart currently for the reasons that you pointed out. The issue will be the so-called "multi-medium" brushes.

Quote:

Good luck Scott. Thanks for keeping us involved.

Hey, I couldn't possibly do this by myself. There is too much knowledge out there in WC-land - we need to leverage our collective wisdom and do this thing right the first time!

Cheers.
Scott
__________________
B. Scott Burkett
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
  #14   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-08-2002, 05:44 PM
scottb's Avatar
scottb scottb is offline
A Local Legend
Atlanta, GA
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,260
 
I've updated the list at the top - thoughts?
__________________
B. Scott Burkett
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
  #15   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-13-2002, 10:27 AM
scottb's Avatar
scottb scottb is offline
A Local Legend
Atlanta, GA
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,260
 
Still looking for some more thoughts on how to best approach the reviewing of brushes.

I am examining the effort needed to break the brushes down into "series", rather than "line/brand". There are some pros to this:
  • It is easy then to put the brushes into the appropriate category, even within the same line. For example, W&N Cirrus brushes are available in several series for watercolors, and several for oil/acrylic.
  • This facilitates better reviews - as the reviews will be more focused

Then, there is the big downside:
  • There will be a LOT more product entries to wade through. One brand/line may contain 10 or more series of brushes. So instead of one item entry for "W&N Cirrus", there will be a dozen, each with their own reviews.

I am wondering if it wouldn't be better to group the series together as a single item. Example:

W&N Cirrus (Watercolor Series)
W&N Cirrus (Oil/Acrylic Series)

Then, basically, in the item description, we can list the individual series, and what they are. This keeps the item count down to something manageable, and still allows for separation where appropriate.

This way, when people rate the brushes, they can rate all of the series that are applicable for that medium (i.e. rating all of the Cirrus brushes designed for watercolors). I don't think that the differences between the series (in the same medium) are worth reviewing separately. Thoughts?

Cheers.
Scott
__________________
B. Scott Burkett
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:17 AM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.