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Old 09-03-2002, 01:48 AM
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FOCUS GROUP: Watercolor Paints/Mediums/etc.

My initial thoughts:

I've loaded up a number of watercolor paints/mediums into the product review system. You can check the demo at any time to see what is there, what isn't, etc.

What we need to do is to continue compiling a solid list of the vendors and their brands If you can find vendor logos/info for vendors that don't have them yet, product images, product descriptions, etc., post 'em here and I'll incorporate them into the review system. If you can't find product images of good quality, product descriptions, etc., or don't have the time, that's okay - just post the vendor/brand name here, and I'll research it.

Also, we need to focus on the rating types for the various Watercolor-related categories. To get us started, feel free to look at the Oil Paints thread for some ideas, as well as the current list of questions for Oil Paints.

NOTE: We will do gouache separately!

The Current List

Here is the current list (which I will try to keep as up-to-date as possible):
  • Color Variety
  • Consistency/Workability
  • Container/Tube Quality
  • Pigment/Color Quality
  • Value for the Money

Cheers.
Scott
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Last edited by scottb : 09-08-2002 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 09-03-2002, 10:25 PM
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Rose Queen Rose Queen is offline
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Here's logo and other info on another fine manufacturer of both watercolors, acrylics and oils: http://www.danielsmith.com/2002/abou...facturing.html
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Old 09-04-2002, 12:19 PM
BobH BobH is offline
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How about Cheap Joe's American Journey brand of watercolor? (I'd go grab a copy of the logo etc, but I'm supposed to be working )

Bob
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Old 09-04-2002, 02:35 PM
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On-line stores

Here are a few on-line stores:

Art Xpress: www.artxpress.com

Cheap Joes: www.cheapjoescatalog.com

The Art Store: www.artstore.com (also have brick & mortar stores)

Mister Art: www.misterart.com

Hope this helps!
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Old 09-06-2002, 01:15 AM
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http://opusframingandartsupplies.com/
http://www.aswsale.com/arwatpap.html
http://www.artsuppliesdirect.ca/
http://www.waterbasedinks.com/about.html
http://www.artistsclub.com/ac/Lobby.asp
http://www.watercolorpassion.com/link.html
http://www.winsornewton.com/Main/Sit...atercolour.pdf
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When we look at a piece of art work it has to form some kind of connection to the viewer. It must evoke a memory or stir the imagination or it will fail to cause the person to return to it and examine it further. By painting some of natures hidden treasures I hope to bring the viewer back to places or times that are stored in their memories.
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Old 09-06-2002, 01:18 AM
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Hi there, gang. Thanks for all the links. However, I think we're pretty set with regard to the initial batch of vendors and products. Subsequent, individual products and vendors, can be suggested through the actual review system itself.

What we need is a very energetic discussion of what rating questions we need to ask reviewers for watercolors, watercolors mediums, etc.

Cheers.
Scott
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Old 09-06-2002, 01:24 AM
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Scott a rating system like a pole of different brands, like WN, Daniel Smith, etc would help.
The same holds true for papers, Arches, Strathmore etc.
Doing a list with area to rate 1-10 would allow each person to rate the different products they have used.

Rich
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When we look at a piece of art work it has to form some kind of connection to the viewer. It must evoke a memory or stir the imagination or it will fail to cause the person to return to it and examine it further. By painting some of natures hidden treasures I hope to bring the viewer back to places or times that are stored in their memories.
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Old 09-06-2002, 09:34 AM
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Rich, thanks much for the input. However, it doesn't really fit in with the model we're using. Take a look at the initial thread posted here (called Overview: Important Information), as well as the demo, to get a feel for how we're approaching it.

Almost at 1,000 products now!
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Old 09-06-2002, 10:17 PM
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Scott read the overview and now understand where you are going with this. If you need some assistance re the watercolor let me know by PM and indicate what you need.

Rich
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When we look at a piece of art work it has to form some kind of connection to the viewer. It must evoke a memory or stir the imagination or it will fail to cause the person to return to it and examine it further. By painting some of natures hidden treasures I hope to bring the viewer back to places or times that are stored in their memories.
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Old 09-06-2002, 10:57 PM
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Hi there, Rich, and thanks for the offer.

As you can imagine, I don't have PMs enabled for my forums account (otherwise, I'd be replying to PMs all day - lol). As I don't have them enabled, I can't send them - stupid forum software!

Basically, I'd love your thoughts relative to what we might ask a potential reviewer about things like watercolor paints and mediums. The mediums are a tough lot, because there are different types of products in that category. The paints category will be a little more detailed, I imagine.

I'm not a watercolorist, but imagine questions around the pigment quality, transparency qualities, color selection/variety in the brand, etc. would be a good starting point. The oils thread had some pretty good banter about this - I imagine a lot of it is re-usable.

It is important that we get it right the first time, as once we roll it out with the rating questions in place, we can't easily go back and add new ones to categories that already have reviews!

Cheers.
Scott
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Old 09-08-2002, 05:30 PM
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I've updated the list at the top - thoughts?
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Old 09-08-2002, 10:18 PM
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Color comparisons of paints, (By Name), are important as each manufacture has their own particular name for colors. The color hue's are similar but the names are often different.

Watercolors have different degrees of
: transparency
: staining
: fading

Guaches should also be studied as the are opeak watercolors.

The grade of watercolor paint often indicates the amount of true pigment over fillers used in the manufacture of the paint.
This address's the workability. With good quality paint you use less to achieve the same reults but with more transparancy and brighter colors.


Just some quick thoughts

Rich
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Alberta Society of Artists,
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http://members.shaw.ca/richwilliamsstudios

When we look at a piece of art work it has to form some kind of connection to the viewer. It must evoke a memory or stir the imagination or it will fail to cause the person to return to it and examine it further. By painting some of natures hidden treasures I hope to bring the viewer back to places or times that are stored in their memories.
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Old 09-08-2002, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Williams
Color comparisons of paints, (By Name), are important as each manufacture has their own particular name for colors. The color hue's are similar but the names are often different.


I agree, but that isn't really the purpose of the rating system, Rich. Trying to devise a system to compare individual colors between brands and mediums would be an entirely different animal than what we have now.

Quote:

Watercolors have different degrees of
: transparency
: staining
: fading


So would you recommend these 3 as individual rating questions? Any chance of cobbling up a quick description for each, in the form of a question, as we would present them to a reviewer? And what the 5 possible answers would be, from worst to best, for each?


Quote:

Guaches should also be studied as the are opeak watercolors.


They are in a separate category ... we will do those separately from traditional artist's watercolors.

Quote:

The grade of watercolor paint often indicates the amount of true pigment over fillers used in the manufacture of the paint.
This address's the workability. With good quality paint you use less to achieve the same reults but with more transparancy and brighter colors.

So is our "Consistency/Workability" question unnecessary for watercolors? Or is it still something we should ask, as it may vary from one brand to the next?

Cheers.
Scott
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Old 09-08-2002, 10:58 PM
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Rich Williams Rich Williams is offline
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Watercolors have different degrees of
: transparency
: staining
: fading



So would you recommend these 3 as individual rating questions? Any chance of cobbling up a quick description for each, in the form of a question, as we would present them to a reviewer? And what the 5 possible answers would be, from worst to best, for each?
Yes these three questions should be included

Transparency the colors ability to show light from within.
opeak, muddy when mixed with one color,
somewhat transparent, clear when mixed with other colors, clear and bright when glazed over

Staining how the color affects the paper and the ability to lift out color after it has been applied.
stains quickly, slight stain, removable with some effort, light stain, no stain

Fading how the paint will react and will the color fade in time with exposure to bright light.
will fade, mild fading in sunlight, UVL added,
sunlight color fast no fading

quote:

quote

The grade of watercolor paint often indicates the amount of true pigment over fillers used in the manufacture of the paint.
This address's the work ability. With good quality paint you use less to achieve the same results but with more transparency and brighter colors.



So is our "Consistency/Work ability" question unnecessary for watercolors? Or is it still something we should ask, as it may vary from one brand to the next?
I think that the question should still be asked as it goes to the mater of how each person works their paint.


I also think that we might need to address some of the mediums used in watercolor

Gum Arabic, ox gall, etc.

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Rich Williams A.S.A. I.P.A.P.
Member of Federation of Canadian Artists,
Alberta Society of Artists,
International Plien-Air Painters
http://members.shaw.ca/richwilliamsstudios

When we look at a piece of art work it has to form some kind of connection to the viewer. It must evoke a memory or stir the imagination or it will fail to cause the person to return to it and examine it further. By painting some of natures hidden treasures I hope to bring the viewer back to places or times that are stored in their memories.
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Old 09-08-2002, 11:17 PM
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scottb scottb is offline
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Thanks for the descriptive info, Rich - I'll work it in ...

Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Williams

I also think that we might need to address some of the mediums used in watercolor

Gum Arabic, ox gall, etc.

Those are already in. We have a separate categories for the various types of Mediums.

Cheers.
Scott
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"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"

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