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Old 08-28-2002, 07:09 PM
lori lori is offline
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hi scott..

i think its a nice idea, but there are so many facits to oil paint, quality, reason for use, price, etc...

that i think the rating system won't be comprehensive enough to give a good OVERALL rating. it is so relative based on so many factors that it seems given the outline you have now, it could be very misleading.

on the other hand, if you were going to accomidate all the factors into the rating, you'd have a much too complex system for a quick review...which in the end, is all that is offered here because the only way a person can know if an oil paint product works for them is to try it.

all the other factors aren't relevant...its all in the touch of the paint.

for example: i use about 6 different brands (and grades) of oil paint, for different purposes, etc. if i was to rate these paints, i wouldn't be able to give a correct reading because some i use for underpainting, some for glazes, some i like the color that is provided by a certain brand over others that are the same quality...and the list goes on and on...

why not just have a page that says...experience is the best way to get to know a product...and take the rest of the day off...LOL!

pax.lori

hey its a nice idea though...
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Old 08-28-2002, 07:47 PM
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nicoletta nicoletta is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by scottb
Also, with regard to the consistency of paint:

As the rating are numerically based (higher being better), is this something that can defined that way? I assume that the more "oily" the paint is, the cheaper, or worse, it is, while the thicker/creamier it is, the better the paint (i.e. more pigment, less binder).

?

IMHO i dont think so.....
thicker paint can be very useful for the palette knife, harder on brushes

oilier paint is good for a wet on wet feel , or to put over thicker paint
also good for washes(underpainting)

creamier (which is my favorite) is good for most paintings

so it cant be a numbered system, should be defined as oily,thick,creamy etc.
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Old 08-28-2002, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by lori
hi scott..

i think its a nice idea, but there are so many facits to oil paint, quality, reason for use, price, etc...

that i think the rating system won't be comprehensive enough to give a good OVERALL rating. it is so relative based on so many factors that it seems given the outline you have now, it could be very misleading.

on the other hand, if you were going to accomidate all the factors into the rating, you'd have a much too complex system for a quick review...which in the end, is all that is offered here because the only way a person can know if an oil paint product works for them is to try it.

all the other factors aren't relevant...its all in the touch of the paint.

for example: i use about 6 different brands (and grades) of oil paint, for different purposes, etc. if i was to rate these paints, i wouldn't be able to give a correct reading because some i use for underpainting, some for glazes, some i like the color that is provided by a certain brand over others that are the same quality...and the list goes on and on...

why not just have a page that says...experience is the best way to get to know a product...and take the rest of the day off...LOL!

I understand what you're saying, Lori, and that is why we need to come up with easily measurable, subjective criteria. Everyone will have a review area that they can type specifics (such as the things you've mentioned above). Moreover, it is only with the volume of reviews, does any of this become useful. If 300 people tank a certain product, there's probably a reason behind it.

Cheers.
Scott
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Old 08-28-2002, 11:04 PM
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I don't see durability as something we can rate. Workability is mostly related to consistency. Consistency is best in the middle in most cases. Not too oily, not too thick. Maybe we don't have oily vs thick, but just "consistency" as a rating, so if it's too oily or too dry, it would be rated low and if it's nice and creamy, it would be rated high.

I think it's going to have to be much more general to work.

Here's my list:[list=1][*]Consistency/Workability[*]Color Quality (how do you like the colors)[*]Pigment content (purity of color?)[*]Worth the cost (value)[*]Covering ability of opaque colors[*]Transparent qualities of transparent colors[*]Variety of colors available[*]Container/tube quality[/list=1]
Regarding the tube quality, some have caps very difficult to get off, some tubes develop holes with too much squeezing, some have really well designed caps (like mussini) with a slot in the cap, etc, etc.

By the way, the demo looks very good. Very nice work, Scott!
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Old 08-28-2002, 11:11 PM
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Thanks for the kind words, Randy. As I mentioned before, the software itself is done. Oddly enough, that was the easy part. Implementing it with the right marriage of categories, rating types, etc is the hard part, but will be well worth it, me thinks, in the long run.

I like your list. A lot. I will try and update the demo with it either tonight or tomorrow. Any chance that you (or another oil cohort here) could put together a brief description of each?

I hadn't thought of tube quality - that's a good one. I also like the breakdown of covering ability and transparent qualities.

Cheers.
Scott
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Last edited by scottb : 08-28-2002 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 08-28-2002, 11:56 PM
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Okay, I've updated the demo ...
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Old 08-29-2002, 12:19 AM
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A quick comment. I just went in to see how it worked to add a review. On the review page, there is no reference to what product you are reviewing. It might be good to add a reference at the top as to what you're reviewing.

Also, what if you're experienced with the product, but not every single category? For instance, with Gamblin, I used it and know what I think about most of it except I don't recall exactly how the transparency was. For each category should there also be a "N/A" or "Don't Know" so that the review wouldn't be lost by not submitting it because of one category you can't answer or skewed by entering info you're not sure about?

More later...
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Last edited by robinsn : 08-29-2002 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 08-29-2002, 12:24 AM
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I don't know much about oil paints to be of help to you. However, I just wanted to say that I think this is a really fantastic idea. Perhaps this might not be so relivant to the person who has painted oils for many many years and already has a great understanding of how different brands are and such, but I think it will be really wonderful for people like myself who may not have the money to go out and try every different brand of oil paint known to man *g* This will be a great help to those of us who are still in the process of learning how to paint, and great to figure what we need to get started.

On that, perhaps I can add my thoughts. How about saying something in regards to how good this paint is for the beginner artist, or if it is better left for the pros, just so we can get an idea of what brands to look for if we are just starting out
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Old 08-29-2002, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by robinsn
A quick comment. I just went in to see how it worked to add a review. On the review page, there is no reference to what product you are reviewing. It might be good to add a reference at the top as to what you're reviewing.


Good idea...

Quote:

Also, what if you're experienced with the product, but not every single category? For instance, with Gamblin, I used it and know what I think about most of it except I don't recall exactly how the transparency was. For each category should there also be a "N/A" or "Don't Know" so that the review wouldn't be lost by not submitting it because of one category you can't answer or skewed by entering info you're not sure about?

The current review engine doesn't facilitate 0-based answers. It is something I have considered adding, however.

I have to be careful about pushing features in, as this is a product that I sell commercially through incursio.com as well. Changes to the review engine will take longer than changes to stuff here at WC!, as I maintain a single codebase.

Cheers.
Scott
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Old 08-29-2002, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Axl_Happy_Goth

On that, perhaps I can add my thoughts. How about saying something in regards to how good this paint is for the beginner artist, or if it is better left for the pros, just so we can get an idea of what brands to look for if we are just starting out

Good idea - but it may be best served by the actual testimonial/text from the reviewer, as I don't think we can rate this on a scale of 1-5, at least not easily.

Cheers.
Scott
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Old 08-29-2002, 12:40 AM
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robinsn robinsn is offline
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It doesn't appear to have a "browse" feature where you can see all the reviews together, like 5 or 10 per page. Would this be a difficult feature to add? (or did I just miss it)
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Old 08-29-2002, 12:43 AM
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You missed it. Use the category browser. I assume you are clicking on the images/links on the left side of the home page - those go to the individual review.
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Old 08-29-2002, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by scottb


The current review engine doesn't facilitate 0-based answers. It is something I have considered adding, however.
Perhaps, then, some instructions on how to handle that. I immediately ran into that when doing the test review. Do we just put "average" or skip the review all together if we don't have an answer on all categories? Perhaps describe the difficulty in the text?
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Old 08-29-2002, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by scottb
You missed it. Use the category browser. I assume you are clicking on the images/links on the left side of the home page - those go to the individual review.
Hmmmm. Perhaps we are talking about different things. I'm referring to seeing the entire review text listed one after the other (like Amazon). All I can find is a list of reviewer, date, summary, and rating for each review. But to read them you have to click on them one at a time. Is there something else I'm missing?
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Old 08-29-2002, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by robinsn

Perhaps, then, some instructions on how to handle that. I immediately ran into that when doing the test review. Do we just put "average" or skip the review all together if we don't have an answer on all categories? Perhaps describe the difficulty in the text?

Good thought. Obviously, the more qualified the reviewer, the more valuable the aggregate of reviews. The intro text for the review form could inform the reviewer that unless they felt comfortable providing values for the questions that are asked, they should refrain from posting a review.

Of course, not all categories of items will be as complex as this one, so that particular issue will likely not exist for the easier categories (easels, for example).

Cheers.
Scott
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