WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > Explore Media > Pastels > Soft Pastel Learning Center
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-05-2009, 07:44 PM
gingersnap's Avatar
gingersnap gingersnap is offline
Enthusiast
halifax,canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,444
 
Hails from Canada
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

can not upload photo.... tried quick links b/c my size is too big in photo. help??
  #32   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-05-2009, 08:22 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is offline
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,586
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

Quote:
Originally Posted by winecountry
not so good today on the work but fabulous find on the internet, he talks to a student about how he does background and many other part of portrait painting here.
I've been washing off and re using the board and painting a bit of acrylic on it each time, this one has so much I can't get the pastel to stick so I just stopped, I'll start fresh tomorrow.


here is a quote about bg, in oil, but it pertains in pastel as well, tho how you do it may differ

Thanks Colleen, for the link and the quotes from Sargent! It's always interesting and informative to see how one of the masters did things. Your studies look like they are providing you with some good experience.

Don
  #33   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-05-2009, 08:25 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is offline
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,586
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

Quote:
Originally Posted by maw-t
DOnt know when I will get to participate.. will be hit & miss... family in from out of town.. then I will be leaving town for awhile..Today, maybe I can play some as I am alone in the house for the first time in a while!!

DON...I am again so grateful for all your hard work! I hav read through most of it & so enjoy seeing the masters works.. lots to take in, but eventually it will penetrate this thick skull I hope!

Nancy, I LOVE love love your work here.. I did notice the area DOn pointed out, but the overall effect is beautifully painted.. that hair, the jewels.. those strokes with the lost found edges.. wow! Very inspiring!

COlleen, Thanks for sharing your goals with us.. your studys are also inspiring & the links on Sargent, I read the whole thing.. some wonderful & informative quotes from him..!

Charlie, I hope you get some time to participate soon as I alwayslove seeing your work & learn something from you!

Gingersnap HI.. glad you are digging in.. dont be shy to post your efforts... we are all here to improve no matter our experience.. as DOn said

T, We eagerly look forward to your next paintings!

Don
  #34   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-05-2009, 09:00 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is offline
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,586
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingersnap
i can not stop laughing. i worked on this piece and was very discouraged. the paper was not taking many layers of pastel. i worked and worked. it is a photo i took of my daughter. i call it "peek-a-boo". i showed my husband. i told him i didn't like the paper. i picked it up and realized i drew on the board backing of the pad. i had used all of the paper the night before!!! i drew while my 2 year old painted ( we have art time when the 1 year old is sleeping) and i didn't notice. i thought i would frame it ,but i don't know now since it is on cardboard. live and learn...... c&c welcome.

don: i did the block in method and used a ruler to measure. thank you for your support.



Shelley,

Yes, the cardboard backing is not a good pastel paper!

I hope the blocking in / measuring is going better. Keep in mind that I did my first portraits at about 16 years old. I am now...older! It takes time and practice. I certainly didn't learn it all in a few days, weeks or even years!

Don
  #35   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-05-2009, 09:01 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is offline
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,586
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingersnap
can not upload photo.... tried quick links b/c my size is too big in photo. help??

Just sent you a PM. I hope it helps.

Don
  #36   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-05-2009, 09:22 PM
gingersnap's Avatar
gingersnap gingersnap is offline
Enthusiast
halifax,canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,444
 
Hails from Canada
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth




2 hours later i finally figured out my upload problem. thanks for your help don.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingersnap
i can not stop laughing. i worked on this piece and was very discouraged. the paper was not taking many layers of pastel. i worked and worked. it is a photo i took of my daughter. i call it "peek-a-boo". i showed my husband. i told him i didn't like the paper. i picked it up and realized i drew on the board backing of the pad. i had used all of the paper the night before!!! i drew while my 2 year old painted ( we have art time when the 1 year old is sleeping) and i didn't notice. i thought i would frame it ,but i don't know now since it is on cardboard. live and learn...... c&c welcome.

don: i did the block in method and used a ruler to measure. thank you for your support.
  #37   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-05-2009, 09:30 PM
gingersnap's Avatar
gingersnap gingersnap is offline
Enthusiast
halifax,canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,444
 
Hails from Canada
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

i have softened some of the iris, crease above eye, and below the nose...
  #38   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-06-2009, 01:55 PM
winecountry's Avatar
winecountry winecountry is offline
A Local Legend
Oregon Coast
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 8,434
 
Hails from United States
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAK723
Thanks Colleen, for the link and the quotes from Sargent! It's always interesting and informative to see how one of the masters did things. Your studies look like they are providing you with some good experience.

Don

I don't think I'll know what's happening until I do my first one after the studies, that will show if I really understood and gained from the current work. I'm being held back by poor ref, so I broke down and ordered on of the books from the Yale press in the series they did of him. I got the middle one of the 1890's when he was at the top of his game for portraits, hoping I can see more detail and value change.

At least it is giving me new ideas although I don't think at this point I could manage the premier coup method he endorses completely. Imagine, in one instance he did 12 sittings on a client, and then just gave up and trashed the whole thing, saying he couldn't do it. A few weeks later he saw the person somewhere in some position that just clicked....told them to come to the studio, and in 3 sessions did a new work he was happy with. Humbling isn't it to think a master couldn't do a painting, I'm sure his worst effort would be way beyond what ever I could do, and if I did that well I'd be over the top
__________________
Constructive critiques and comments welcome.

Last edited by winecountry : 03-06-2009 at 01:59 PM.
  #39   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-06-2009, 02:07 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is offline
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,586
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

Quote:
Originally Posted by winecountry
I don't think I'll know what's happening until I do my first one after the studies, that will show if I really understood and gained from the current work. I'm being held back by poor ref, so I broke down and ordered on of the books from the Yale press in the series they did of him. I got the middle one of the 1890's when he was at the top of his game for portraits, hoping I can see more detail and value change.

At least it is giving me new ideas although I don't think at this point I could manage the premier coup method he endorses completely. Imagine, in one instance he did 12 sittings on a client, and then just gave up and trashed the whole thing, saying he couldn't do it. A few weeks later he saw the person somewhere in some position that just clicked....told them to come to the studio, and in 3 sessions did a new work he was happy with. Humbling isn't it to think a master couldn't do a painting, I'm sure his worst effort would be way beyond what ever I could do, and if I did that well I'd be over the top

Today we look at painters like Sargent with awe and reference, but he was just a person like you or I. His pile of "discards" was probably plenty big enough! Your pastel portrait of the young child could easily be included in a grouping of Sargent's (or anybody else's) portraits and it would fit right in! Don't sell yourself short, you have loads of talent!

Don
  #40   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-06-2009, 02:26 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is offline
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,586
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

Hi Shelley, Glad you were able upload this! Very nice! It looks like you are doing a fine job of measuring. Everything looks quite proportional. One thing I notice that would fall under the measuring category is the angle of the eye. I have drawn a line to show the slant of the eye in the photo. You will notice that your eye is much straighter across. I am quite impressed with the mouth, which was quite tricky, but you have captured it well.

I made a grayscale version of the photo to discuss values a little bit. I know you have a smallish selection of pastels, and were working on the cardboard paper, so I am not suggesting you change anything on this painting, but one thing to watch for in your future paintings is the overall value of the skin tones. You will probably notice in the grayscale photo, how much darker the face is than the light background. Getting that overall mid range value is difficult, but makes it easier to then choose pastels of lighter and darker value to show the light and the shadow values. Just something to keep in mind.



Again, this one looks good! I look forward to the next one (not done on cardboard, I hope! )

Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingersnap


2 hours later i finally figured out my upload problem. thanks for your help don.
  #41   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-06-2009, 04:13 PM
gingersnap's Avatar
gingersnap gingersnap is offline
Enthusiast
halifax,canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,444
 
Hails from Canada
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

i kept reworking the eyelid thinking that was the problem!!! i usually lay the midtone first , but the color kept falling off. when i realized it was too light!! perhaps i will try it again on pastel paper to see the difference? thanks again!!! learning lots. really appreciate you checking the measurements and value!!!!!!
  #42   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-06-2009, 08:40 PM
winecountry's Avatar
winecountry winecountry is offline
A Local Legend
Oregon Coast
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 8,434
 
Hails from United States
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

Thank you Don, it's nice encouraged....

Sargent did a lot of portraits with very dark backgrounds even with brunettes ...to save a lot of pastel I just used black paper, but forgot to use the smooth side Ick!

really need to see a bigger pic of this, bet that hat is nothing but big juicy strokes of paint to be the feathers...what hats women used to wear, and what a gesture he caught, wanted you to see it so including a full shot.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Constructive critiques and comments welcome.
  #43   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-06-2009, 08:46 PM
winecountry's Avatar
winecountry winecountry is offline
A Local Legend
Oregon Coast
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 8,434
 
Hails from United States
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

having upload trouble,...here is the study from his portrait.
__________________
Constructive critiques and comments welcome.

Last edited by winecountry : 03-06-2009 at 08:50 PM.
  #44   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-06-2009, 09:01 PM
gingersnap's Avatar
gingersnap gingersnap is offline
Enthusiast
halifax,canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,444
 
Hails from Canada
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

winecountry,
your contributions are amazing and inspiring. i understand the difficulty with the references being small to see detail and subtle changes in value. i tried 2 cassatt pastels. i got discouraged. i admire the beautiful studies you have done. you do an amazing job. let us know how the sargent book is when you receive it. can not wait to see what you produce with those!!!!
  #45   Report Bad Post  
Old 03-06-2009, 09:18 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is offline
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,586
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 4: Backgrounds & Depth

Hi Colleen,

Nicely done! This type of painting - done on a dark or black paper - is a great exercise. It forces us to think about the light shapes, rather than the dark. For those like me who started by drawing with pencil (or something dark like charcoal) on white or light paper, the tendency is to paint the shadows and leave the lights, or make the lights an afterthought. At least for me, this tendency has remained all my life from my drawing roots. But in most paintings, it is the lights that are more important! These Sargents are a good example, because he did use dark backgrounds a lot. So it is the light areas that jump out and are the areas of emphasis. So working on a dark ground is a great way to concentrate on the lights. In fact, when we start our figure classes, the first class will have an exercise of doing only the lights on a dark paper.

One somewhat annoying aspect of the very dark backgrounds in Sargent's paintings (and anybody else's, too) is that we don't really know how dark they are. My guess is that many of them are lighter, especially those paintings where the dark hair or dark clothing has completely disappeared. We have to remind ourselves that we are looking at photos, and photos have a much more limited value range than our eye. So a background that appears black might really be only a 7 or 8 on a value scale of 1-10. Unless we are lucky enough to see them in person, we can only guess how close the photos (in art books and on the internet) are to the correct values.

I really think these exercises that you are doing are a great idea and I urge others to try something similar.

Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by winecountry
having upload trouble,...here is the study from his portrait.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:13 PM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.