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  #16   Report Bad Post  
Old 01-02-2009, 09:38 AM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

Xina, I hope you had a nice holiday and look forward to seeing more of your work.

Charlie, Your advice is always welcome! Looking forward to seeing your hair paintings!

Potoma, Come on in and join the party! We look forward to your participation.

Kathy, Welcome! Hope those pastels arrive soon!

Graham (Grekslay), Thanks for the nice comments! Can't wait to see your work!

Don
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:49 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

Thank you for your input, Charlie! Trust me, I appreciate it. Any help or advice, no matter who it's coming from, is always welcomed!

Thank you for your reply, Don! I will either restart or try to continue fixing it, while focussing on what Charlie and you have mentionned. I will keep on working on it.

Thank you both!
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:14 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

Well here I am again starting off with the first one.. The holidays were wonderful with a housefull.. but it sure feels good to be back to painting I picked the guy with the most shadows.. makes it a bit easier to see.. hmm I think his lips are to low?? & ugh that nose! also the shape of face is not acurate.. I did this just looking at the pic right here & went straight to painting without a sketch.. guess I should start using a grid.. just to lazy to take the time, thus I always end up with somethings "off".. many times alot of things off. I think my main question is how could I make him have more form.. I see portraits that look as if they are so solid.. even though loosely done..(which is what I admire) So any help .. I feel I might could get the nose right if I spent a little more time...

Don thanks again for the GREAT thread.. I see you have put much time into this...What a wonderful generous thing for you to do! I am excited to learn!!

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Old 01-02-2009, 06:05 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

Well, duh me.. I am NOT the first! Joel, I dont now how I missed those lips! Yes you r definately being to hard on yourself.. they are really good!! I bet if you softened the lines around edges & center just a smidge you might be happier.. but very nice as is! I cant imagine hating them, I would be pleased if it was mine!
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:46 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

T,

This is great! This is exactly the type of result I am looking for! Great shadow and light shapes! The forms are nicely blocked in. And I like the loose handling. No sign of fiddling around!

Does that mean there aren't a few things that could be redefined? Sure, there are. Usually the likeness will be improved step by step, so often it is a matter of adding more stages, although the likeness is already there in this one. But any corrections needed are minor compared to the positive things that I see here. And most of those corrections are measuring issues, and we haven't done measuring yet, so I'm not too concerned about them. We'll discuss them in the next lesson. As for grids...I wouldn't recommend them. We will look at measuring techniques that will help train the eye so that you can measure when painting from life as well from photos.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you think it lacks form. I think there is a nice solidity to the man. Usually, a more linear approach might create a feeling of lacking solid form, but I don't see that here. Looks like he has mass!

I'd be real happy with this one!

Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by maw-t
Well here I am again starting off with the first one.. The holidays were wonderful with a housefull.. but it sure feels good to be back to painting I picked the guy with the most shadows.. makes it a bit easier to see.. hmm I think his lips are to low?? & ugh that nose! also the shape of face is not acurate.. I did this just looking at the pic right here & went straight to painting without a sketch.. guess I should start using a grid.. just to lazy to take the time, thus I always end up with somethings "off".. many times alot of things off. I think my main question is how could I make him have more form.. I see portraits that look as if they are so solid.. even though loosely done..(which is what I admire) So any help .. I feel I might could get the nose right if I spent a little more time...

Don thanks again for the GREAT thread.. I see you have put much time into this...What a wonderful generous thing for you to do! I am excited to learn!!

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Old 01-02-2009, 10:40 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

Thank you Don ...
About form... I was looking at my paintings from the past(Charlie's thread made me do it ) & seems they lack form /substance.. at least that is one thing they lack in my view.. I hope to improve on that. I did a little more on this one... not sure it helped much.. but a question I have is.. about the BG.. should I have left the tree out? I put it in early on to help me with placement of features.. just another reference to use when blocking in shapes etc.. but now wondering if it would be better gone...?
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:32 AM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

T,

I have no problem with the tree. It adds some secondary interest and places the man into his environment. The bark is well done, too!

Of course, the computer has given artists a tool of unbelievable power. With an art or photo manipulation program, we can help answer our "what if" questions. On the other hand, after trying out all our color choices, or background alternatives, or a dozen different crop choices, we can be overwhelmed with indecision! Here is the tree removed. Is it better, worse, different but no better or worse....hmmmm. I'll let you decide!



Quote:
Originally Posted by maw-t
Thank you Don ...
About form... I was looking at my paintings from the past(Charlie's thread made me do it ) & seems they lack form /substance.. at least that is one thing they lack in my view.. I hope to improve on that. I did a little more on this one... not sure it helped much.. but a question I have is.. about the BG.. should I have left the tree out? I put it in early on to help me with placement of features.. just another reference to use when blocking in shapes etc.. but now wondering if it would be better gone...?
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Old 01-03-2009, 12:35 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

T, it is gorgeous! Both solid and atmospheric at the same time! Really, I "wow-ed" when it scrolled up. And fwiw, I prefer him sans pole.

Charlie
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Old 01-03-2009, 02:01 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

Hmm, I thought about going into gimp & smearing it out .. but then my dizzy blondness set in & I forgot all about that..LOL! OK, teach, no fair... gonna make me think, eh? Well, I kinda like the tree.. in facto.. I think I could add more.. & have him in a garden, maybe close his eyes a bit more as if praying & call it "In The Garden". SOoo I went into Gimp & played n played... Now mind you I probably could never get it to look like this IRL, even if I wanted to..but had some fun, & thought I would post it just to share what kind of ideas one can get with gimp even if as computer challenged as I am.. Oh for those that might not know.. it is FREE!

Is it better? worse? or just different & no better or worse? Gee I dunno, guess I will leave that for the TEACH to decide (hee-hee).
I think I might have liked the first sketch better than all of them..

Oh & CHarlie.. what is sans??? ditch da pole??

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Old 01-03-2009, 02:25 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

T, oh, sorry, been reading too many British books, and they strew in French now and then. "Sans" means "without", so yes, "Ditch da pole" is right! Though, your Gimp playing is great. While one pole growing out of his shoulder is one too many, (imho) a whole copse of them is just fab!

Charlie
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Old 01-03-2009, 02:28 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

T,

Isn't the computer fun...and annoying at the same time! You could create many different versions and then have to decide which is best! Your entire garden background could work - but does it enhance or distract from the artistic statement you want to make? That is the major question about backgrounds, which we will discuss in a future lesson. And no, there is no easy answer to the question!

Don
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:10 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

Charlie, I should read more!! & I tottaly agree with you about one pole being "one too many" especially growing out of his shoulder

Don, YES! One could go mad with so much info! Anyway, I feel I have hi-jacked this thread & cant wait to see some of the others posting... but since it was kind of quiet, I hope you dont mind too much? Sorry for getting off subject too... backgrounds are definately a whole other "show"... ANyway having said all that, I wanted to post my latest progress .. This is on my paper with no manips except for some fill light to make it appear more like the one IRL. No need to comment, unless of course you want to.... Now, I am sure everyone is about as sick of this one, as I am.. so
some of you others get busy & POST your pics!! I am moving on to the next one.. no more of this one..honest!
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:24 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

T,

I like it!! Don't worry about jumping ahead to backgrounds. We haven't done measuring, yet, but it has been the topic of much discussion anyway! I think you have done a really nice job on this one and I think the background gives a nice sense of atmosphere and is still subdued enough so that it does not compete with the man. It is hard to do a background that meets those requirements, and this one does!

Nicely done!

Don
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:34 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

I've really enjoyed your posts T, and the gimp play and your imagination has been fun. Its a terrifc portrait, how I wish I could do that loose AND solid style. You've got it here.
Xina
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:36 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 2 (The Mouth and More)

T, yours is so beautiful. I love it. You have the depth and modeling perfect and the likeness is there.

I'm excited about this one and going to be doing them, the one that'll give me the most trouble though is trying to use just the sides of sticks. I can't work very large for logistic reasons, so I'm trying to figure out which ones to use that'll give me small enough pieces to use that technique on something I can still hold in my lap. Or I'll just try it on larger paper with Senneliers anyway.

I think the Sennelier half sticks are probably the best ones to try that with, don't have many small pieces in the others because my usual technique is using the tips (but not always the corners or edges). I'm used to being able to get thinner or thicker, lighter or heavier application by angle.
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