WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > Explore Media > Pastels > Soft Pastel Learning Center
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-18-2004, 10:27 PM
Dyin's Avatar
Dyin Dyin is offline
A WC! Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,831
 
Hails from United States
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

Well, instead I did a matt acrylic varnish...soaked up more of the dust, then scumbled some colored pencil side strokes in using the same colors...I prefered the pastel one but am happy enough with this. whew!
__________________
Artist webpage
See my virtual gallery!

Charter Member of Silver Chord Art Guild
  #32   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-18-2004, 11:02 PM
Deborah Secor's Avatar
Deborah Secor Deborah Secor is offline
A WC! Legend
Albuquerque, New Mexico
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,112
 
Hails from United States
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

Oh good! Glad you could save it!!!
Deborah
__________________
Deborah
"All glory to Him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Landscape Painting in Pastels (free online book)
Gouache Blog
  #33   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-19-2004, 07:46 AM
dragonlady's Avatar
dragonlady dragonlady is offline
Enthusiast
Bedfordshire, England
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,578
 
Hails from United Kingdom
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

Deborah,

Sorry to take so long answering your questions - I do appreciate your comments.

I did the three painting in the order shown, i.e. black, white, orange. Before starting each one I replaced all the pastels from my working set back to their boxes then rechose them with the ref pic and the coloured ground in front of me, so I wasn't quite specifically choosing different colours but the ones that felt right given the ref pic and the colour of the ground. So I chose the colours based on what I saw in the ref pic, tried them out on the ground (and against any colours already laid down) and then shifted to a darker/lighter/brighter colour accordingly.

Not sure if my expectations changed by the third, but I know from doing this exercise that I have certain habits of using colour that I should challenge - e.g. I have certain colours I always reach for to paint the darks under trees, which is probably why the tree line on the white ground is much darker than the rest of the painting - I just used the usual colours instead of the colours that would work best with the rest of the picture !
__________________
Joy - C&C always welcome
My online gallery
  #34   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-24-2004, 01:08 PM
Deborah Secor's Avatar
Deborah Secor Deborah Secor is offline
A WC! Legend
Albuquerque, New Mexico
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,112
 
Hails from United States
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

I just thought I'd jog the memories of some of you who mentioned wanting to participate in this thread. If you have any paintings done on different grounds, or want to give it a try, I'd love to see what you do and find out what you learned from the experience.

As a broad generalization dark background color tends to instantly harmonize lighter colors laid over it, however we are fooled into making all the colors somewhat darker because they all look light to begin with! Then we can add the lightest lights at the end, which is the 'normal' way to paint in pastels --light over dark.

Light background colors make all tones look darker, thus harmonizing medium values better, but often forcing us to add real darks later in the structure when we see their lack--which is against the flow. We have to correct the value structure before finishing.

Bright colors, on the other hand, effect people differently. Some want to quickly cover all that bright so they can see what's happening. Others seem to enjoy the bright color, and respond to it with inspired colors, taking pleasure in the relationships that develop. Often bright backgrounds result in colorful paintings--but not always! A lot depends on your color choice, your visceral response to it, and the color of the subject you place on it. (Of course, this could be said of all the ground colors, couldn't it?) Add to that the fact that a bright color could be light or dark in value and you see that another level of complication has been added.

I'd like to know if you find these generalizations to be true in your case. You don't have to paint a masterpiece, just some little quickie sketches on different grounds. Joy's (dragonlady) experiences seem to bear out these thoughts, to some degree.

My question about your expectations changing, Joy, were to see if by then you were analyzing the photograph differently. I find that when I paint the same subject three times in a row (which generally bores me to tears!!!) by the third one I 'know' what color belongs under the trees or as the shadow in the cloud. Like you, I may have put my colors back in my palette, but I still grab that same lavender for the clouds or green for the shadows...but then the bright paper can jog me. The lavender looks weird or the green is toooooo dark. Something happens in my expectations. I've found that if I tone my paper different bright colors--maybe a vibrant cobalt blue in contrast to your bright orange--things really change again.

There's no 'right' answer here. Anything you learn is interesting and meaningful, and it's always a process. There's no 'z' in this alphabet of art, as Handell is fond of pointing out. So I hope to see some more here! Please feel free to add your images any time!!

Deborah
__________________
Deborah
"All glory to Him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Landscape Painting in Pastels (free online book)
Gouache Blog

Last edited by Deborah Secor : 07-24-2004 at 01:12 PM.
  #35   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-24-2004, 02:04 PM
k9artist's Avatar
k9artist k9artist is offline
Veteran Member
virginia
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 893
 
Hails from United States
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

sorry Dee...I am remiss in starting this..I got up early this morning to give it a go..but I got sigetraked as usual..I am going to do something simple..like a pear (well...not so simple for me!)
Dana
I propably should do a dog..like always..but I cant stand to do them more than once!! LOL
__________________

"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of "
  #36   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-24-2004, 02:59 PM
Deborah Secor's Avatar
Deborah Secor Deborah Secor is offline
A WC! Legend
Albuquerque, New Mexico
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,112
 
Hails from United States
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

Great, Dana, hope you find the time!

Deborah
__________________
Deborah
"All glory to Him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Landscape Painting in Pastels (free online book)
Gouache Blog
  #37   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-24-2004, 04:28 PM
k9artist's Avatar
k9artist k9artist is offline
Veteran Member
virginia
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 893
 
Hails from United States
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

OK..let me start out by saying..I have never painted from anything other than photos..that I can think of!! Sad isnt it!! I have been wanting to try some real life painting..oh yeah..I just remembered I have done some life drawings..and recently I have been sketching my dogs and my husband..while they are asleep..or on the pc(not the dogs) Soooo I bought a couple of fake pears..with this in mind (they looked real)
I started by toning each paper (grey Wallis) the first with an off white..the second with blue and the third with black. Then I sketched my little fake pear on all 3. I did find trying to remove the charcoal would lift the underpainting..or ground..oh well..I can live with that!
The cream colored tone I put on the first one I pretty much painted in a traditional way
The blue ground was very exciting to work with (I should have saved that one for last!!) I wanted to try and use more exciting colors on the blue!!
I really enjoyed doing that one!
The black one I thought was the toughest (maybe I was bored by then??)
It was a lot more challenging than I thought!! I have painted one dog on black canson paper and found it easier. Still life is tough for me! I had no clue about how to do the shadow..so I left it black and painted around it..I had a hard time getting the mid tones and the lights..I also found that I blended more with my fingers where as the others I let the pastels do the blending.
Well..go and have a good laugh now!! I know I did!!
Thanks Dee..I really needed to do something like this..I am kinda new to pastels..a few dogs and cats here and there..but I am hooked on them!!
I might take some lessons this fall!
Oh yeah..if you are reading this Barb..my masai woman is now purple!!I am afraid its a goner now!! LOL
Oh yeah again..these took me about 1 and a half hours to do..about 5x7
Thanks
Dana
Can you spot the fake pear!
Attached Images
  
__________________

"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of "
  #38   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-25-2004, 10:09 AM
E-J's Avatar
E-J E-J is offline
A Local Legend
East Anglia, UK
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,080
 
Hails from England
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

Dana, I love your yellow pear on that vibrant blue! Do more!!
  #39   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-25-2004, 12:26 PM
Deborah Secor's Avatar
Deborah Secor Deborah Secor is offline
A WC! Legend
Albuquerque, New Mexico
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,112
 
Hails from United States
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

Dana--these look great!!!I agree with E-J that the blue one is very exciting, though I suspect if I were to see the light colored one separately I'd find it beautifully subtle in color, too. It's just overshadowed by the blue one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k9artist
I did find trying to remove the charcoal would lift the underpainting..or ground..oh well..I can live with that!
I can't tell for sure, but it may be that you didn't rub the color into the paper deeply enough. I can't emphasize enough how vigorously you can rub and wipe off the pastel on Wallis paper. I mean, I really go to town! Rub it until you get no more fall off. You shouldn't see any of the paper color showing through at all. When I do that I can draw with charcoal and just flick it away with a touch of the foam brush or my hand and it's gone. In your blue one I see some of the grey showing through, I think, which means you didn't get the blue rubbed in thoroughly. (I don't suppose it matters, but in case I'm right I'd like to encourage you to try it again and see how this makes such a difference.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by k9artist
The black one I thought was the toughest (maybe I was bored by then??) It was a lot more challenging than I thought!! I have painted one dog on black canson paper and found it easier. Still life is tough for me! I had no clue about how to do the shadow..so I left it black and painted around it..I had a hard time getting the mid tones and the lights..I also found that I blended more with my fingers where as the others I let the pastels do the blending.
Again, here it looks to me as if you didn't have the black rubbed in and it may have dirtied your colors a bit. I think I can see some of the grey through it at the top, too. I could be wrong--but when I put light yellow down on black toned paper it doesn't become even slightly darkened.

Having said all that, may I also add that I'm so glad you did it!!! I think your pears are beautifully drawn and I love the colors. (BTW, I didn't even smirk once, let alone laugh!)

Now, maybe we need to see more still life from you--and obviously the bright colors work for you, so give that a go, too!!

Thanks for taking part.
Deborah
__________________
Deborah
"All glory to Him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Landscape Painting in Pastels (free online book)
Gouache Blog
  #40   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-27-2004, 05:00 PM
Johnab's Avatar
Johnab Johnab is offline
Senior Member
New Mexico
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 306
 
Hails from United States
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

Deborah:
Here are my efforts for this lesson in using pastels. First is my reference photo. Then the scene done on white toned white Wallis 9X12. Next is the scene done on dark (black and dark blue) toned white Wallis 9x12. Finally the scene rendered on bright red toned white Wallis paper 9x12.
There are some things I like in each scene. My inexperience shows in the one on white ground; I think I improved on the trees in the succeeding efforts. I like the far shore and the water in this one.
I liked the black ground peeking out between the trees. The black made it easy to get the darks in there. I like the water in this one too.
I chose a red for the bright color ground because of the complementary aspect with the green trees. However I found myself trying to cover up all the red, but did leave some behind the tree trunks. Making the water look right was the most difficult part of using this ground.
Deborah, thank you so much for starting these lessons. This is just what I need. Please give feedback on what I need to do for a better outcome.
Attached Images
    
__________________
Beth
  #41   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2004, 12:43 AM
Deborah Secor's Avatar
Deborah Secor Deborah Secor is offline
A WC! Legend
Albuquerque, New Mexico
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,112
 
Hails from United States
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

Beth, these look quite good! I'm so glad you gave this a go. I can see your changes and the learning process in each one.

In the white one I sense very little of the ground color showing, although in reality there's probably a bit more than I can see here. I like the curve you gave the far shore and the water has a very liquid movement to it, perhaps more so than in the others. The angled trees, and the reflections in the water, add a nice touch to it, too.

In the black one I can see the ground color in between the trees, leaving some striking darks that work well. However, as a suggestion I'd like to see those areas a bit lighter in reflection. I'd also like to challenge you to layer more colors of the same dark value into those spots, so that you arrive at a dark purple-green-red violet-blue color there. The shape of the water allows it to dominate this one, and I especially like the purple colors you used in the near water and grasses.

I rather like the color of the red (which looks a bit more magenta here) against the greens in the trees. I think the shape of the grass bank on the viewer's right side is a little less pleasing and interesting than the others. I wonder if in a future painting you could use touches of red, magenta, orange, and other warm colors to make the greens visually interesting, while not working on a bright colored ground. This one seems to lack the strong darks that the other two have--but it's not too late to add some. You might try that, perhaps inspired by what worked in the others.

What did you learn from doing this exercise? (Just curious...) If you were going to do a big finished painting of this image, what color ground you would choose? Why?

My only overall suggestion for you would be to allow the ground color to further influence your color choices in the future, so that perhaps when you're working on a very dark ground you choose different greens or blues than when working on a bright color or a light one.

I think this was a very successful experiment for you and I'm so glad you enjoyed doing it! thanks for taking part!!

Anyone else have anything they hope to show?

Deborah
__________________
Deborah
"All glory to Him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Landscape Painting in Pastels (free online book)
Gouache Blog

Last edited by Deborah Secor : 07-28-2004 at 12:46 AM.
  #42   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2004, 10:06 AM
Johnab's Avatar
Johnab Johnab is offline
Senior Member
New Mexico
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 306
 
Hails from United States
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

Deborah: Thanks so much for the helpful feedback. I will study your advice and try to absorb and make use of it in future paintings. Perhaps the limited number of pastels I have to work with dictates the amount of variety I can achieve with the greens. Yes, I understand that using other colors of like value would make the greens more vibrant and exciting. I will remember this advice and make use of it. THANKS.

What did I learn from this exercise?
1. Working on the toned ground was faster and easier than starting with the white ground. Having color already there to build on, or work against, gave better results.
2. More careful drawing of tree trunks gave a more rewarding result. I achieved this in my second and third efforts (on the toned papers).
3. Using a variety of hues of the same value to achieve the appearance of "trees" or "water" yields more interesting results. (I already knew this, but my limited supplies and my somewhat sporadic production requires that I relearn these basics from time to time.)
4. I love the Wallis paper--my first time to use it, and my first pastel landscapes.
5. These exercises inspire me to try still lifes and portraits in pastel.
6. I think I need a more varied, larger, supply of pastels???

At this point in the experience, for a larger, more finished painting of this landscape subject, I think I would choose the dark blue-black ground because needed contrasts seems simpler to achieve. However I want to work a bit on each of these to incorporate your suggestions for improvement. This may be difficult because the spaces between the tree trunks are quite narrow and I already have perhaps-too-many layers of pastel filling the tooth in some places (the water in the reddish --yes, it is more of a magenta--ground one). I may have to scrub some out and try again.

Thanks again for your helpful suggestions.
__________________
Beth

Last edited by Johnab : 07-28-2004 at 10:10 AM.
  #43   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-28-2004, 10:20 AM
Johnab's Avatar
Johnab Johnab is offline
Senior Member
New Mexico
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 306
 
Hails from United States
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

Deborah, I just looked at your website and saw your painting illustrating your book. Now I see that I relied too much on the colors in my reference photo, tried to make my painting look like those colors. I can see how I can vary the colors I use to make the scene look more like the real thing than the photo. Also I must learn to be more discriminating about what to include and what to ignore in a scene. Some plein air experience would be so enlightening!
I must have your book! and will order soon.
__________________
Beth
  #44   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-02-2004, 12:30 AM
Dea Dea is offline
Enthusiast
Outside of Darwin Northern Territory
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,508
 
Hails from Australia
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

This sounds interesting, I don't have any Wallis paper and was wondering if it would work on white Art spectrum colourfix paper? Not so much for the colour but for the ability to wipe away bits you don't want.
__________________
Deanna Field

"You can own the Earth and still, all you own is earth untill, you can paint with all the colours of the wind." Disney's Pocohontas.
  #45   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-02-2004, 12:38 AM
Deborah Secor's Avatar
Deborah Secor Deborah Secor is offline
A WC! Legend
Albuquerque, New Mexico
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,112
 
Hails from United States
Re: Explore Soft Pastels-July 2004-ground colors

Deanna, I haven't tried it myself but it might work just as well. If you could give it a try and let me see how it works, I'd appreciate it! Always hoping to learn more....

Deborah
__________________
Deborah
"All glory to Him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Landscape Painting in Pastels (free online book)
Gouache Blog

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:45 AM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.