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Old 02-08-2009, 02:17 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

Kathy,

This is much more than SOMETHING...this is very nice!

It is a tough one to critiques, because there are some measurement issues, but I wouldn't have noticed them without looking at the ref. Without looking at the ref, I see a couple very minor things; her nostrils (and bottom of the nose) is not at the same angle as the eyes and mouth, and it looks like the bridge of the nose is just a very slight touch too close to her right eye. Very minor things. The positives however, are many! The values are excellent and the sense of light and shadow very well done. The entire right side of her face (arrow) has wonderful depth. The strong contrast of the light and shadow where it is closest (to the viewer) makes it come forward, and then the nice reflected light as the plane of the face recedes, is very well done.



I did put your painting and the ref side by side and was a bit surprised. Because the proportions on your painting look quite good. But they are closer to the "ideal" proportions! Our reference (Bethany) has some definite modifications from the ideal.



By looking at some proportional divisions, we see that Bethany has a shorter nose and a longer chin than the ideal. We also see that she has a very large amount of hair on top, wider than her forehead division!

So all in all, your painting is very well done, but the proportions (from top to bottom) don't quite match Bethany's.

Still, the positives far outweigh the negatives. I like this painting a lot!

Don


Quote:
Originally Posted by kadon
Well Don...I was determined to come up with SOMETHING. I began to get the feel of using the pastels and had a go at this:

I already can see the nose needs work especially on her left side....the face looks a bit out of kilter. I measured with my thumb/brush method the thirds etc. and eye measurements across.

Leaving the main areas for correction up to you Don. But I have probably overworked this one.

Kathy
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Old 02-08-2009, 04:33 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

OOOOh thank you for that Don. I can see what you mean re bridge of nose, length of same...also longer chin and higher head etc. I've learned a lot doing this and with your critiques things become clearer still. Thank you very much...never thought I'd get even this far. Kathy
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Old 02-09-2009, 03:22 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

WOw.. it will take me a few days to absorb all this great info! Don, thank you SO much for all the effort & time you have put into this.. it is invaluble info that people will use & benefit from for years to come. I have been away & it feels good to back painting I couldnt resist the photo of the lady with glasses... infact, I was away so long, it took coming here to get inspired to get me going again!
Already some great efforts here! Way to go everyone!!

This is a quicky on wallis paper.. 1 1/2 hrs from first mark to uploading .. I measured using shapes mostly..(eyeballing comparisons as I went)I should have took more time and measured more pricisely.. I know that, but it is so tedious & I wanted to get back into the swing of things quickly ...It needs more work for sure... I will be looking forward to your help & suggestions as what should I do now.. not only in likeness, but also in style... should I blend it more ...keep on working it to a more realistic look? If so when does one know to stop before it looks overworked??
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Old 02-09-2009, 04:43 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

T,

Glad that this reference got you inspired! Your painting is great! I felt obligated to do a few measurements to compare. I drew a few guidelines, and quite frankly, there is just a bit more space between her nose and mouth in your painting than the ref. And you know what, if it were me, I would say close enough!



Some of your other questions are not so easy to answer. If you said that this was done, I would have no problem with that! In fact, I would consider it done if it were mine - unless I wanted a different look. I have always liked your loose, painterly style (perhaps because I have never been able to do it myself!) I guess the only way to answer your style question, would be do do some portraits in a more blended style, some looser, some more finished, some more "sketchy", and then see what you like best. You are the artist - the painting is your artistic statement and your artistic vision - so no one else should decide that for you. I think, in very general terms, that many artists start with work that is tighter, more finished, and over time, move towards a looser style, allowing the viewer to fill in some of the blanks. You are already there, in my opinion!

Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by maw-t
WOw.. it will take me a few days to absorb all this great info! Don, thank you SO much for all the effort & time you have put into this.. it is invaluble info that people will use & benefit from for years to come. I have been away & it feels good to back painting I couldnt resist the photo of the lady with glasses... infact, I was away so long, it took coming here to get inspired to get me going again!
Already some great efforts here! Way to go everyone!!

This is a quicky on wallis paper.. 1 1/2 hrs from first mark to uploading .. I measured using shapes mostly..(eyeballing comparisons as I went)I should have took more time and measured more pricisely.. I know that, but it is so tedious & I wanted to get back into the swing of things quickly ...It needs more work for sure... I will be looking forward to your help & suggestions as what should I do now.. not only in likeness, but also in style... should I blend it more ...keep on working it to a more realistic look? If so when does one know to stop before it looks overworked??
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Old 02-09-2009, 04:46 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

T, I love the energy and expressiveness of your painting. If you start blending, you lose the excitement of your mark-making. But if your goal is realism, then some blending might be required. For me, the issue becomes about how you like to work rather that what is "right", personal expectations rather than "accepted"expectations. Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now.
Big picture, I'm glad to see you getting back into the swing of things. I really enjoy your work I've seen on WC.
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Old 02-09-2009, 04:53 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

Hi Don, I'm having so much fun with this class. Great motivation for me to practice. I took this photo with natural north light which definitely cooled the left hand side of his face. I found I had 3 basic value/temperature groupings. The left shadow, med value and quite cool, the centre bright and warmer, and the right hand side of his face warm and dark. I think the cool shadow measurements are a bit off. Feedback as to what I missed is always appreciated. HMMM, his left ear is having issues about trying to move forward in space.
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:11 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

Don, Thanks for the guidance & kind words of wisdom.. and yes just those few lines help so much to "see". I knew the questions were difficult...I have asked them before & never really got an answer until now... I love loose paintings that look effortless..(my goal) Alicia, Jim jimmy, Aldo.. and so many others...and I guess I _started *trying* to achieve that effect because it appeals to me most.. however I am blown away by someone that can paint so realistic that one feels they could reach out & touch that person! I think I am in too big of hurry to go through all the stages... I might have another go with her in a bit more realistic attempt.. this time employing more measuring &blending & see how it goes!.. thanks again!

Terri, thanks so much for your encouraging words! I tottaly agree with you & Don that it is up to the artist.. I just feel I am stuck somewhere in the middle of where I wanna be...I like painting fast & furious.. so realism probably isnt for me! Your painting is wonderful.. very expressive & a great likeness... I love it... so much more ALIVE than the photo!

Mette, I also think you did a great job "our lady" Your finish is wonderful!

Kathy, lemme tell you, your painting is really great! I LOVE IT! You certainly have a good eye for values & a lovely touch with the sticks.. keep them coming!
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:45 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

Terri,

First let me say that this is nicely done. While there are a couple measurement issues - they are pretty minor. I have a couple value comments, too, but I want you know that overall this is well done!



First, I increased the contrast of the photo, which was very low contrast and hard (for me, anyway) to see the division between light and shadow. A couple value things that pretty minor, but make a good lesson! The area under his right eyebrow - it is getting some reflected light, but is noticeably darker than any of the areas in the light. I think you have it a bit too light, same as the two areas on the left side, by the ear. Within shadow areas, areas of reflected light, or areas that are just slightly lighter, are very often painted too light because we see them in comparison to the darker shadows. It is so easy to exaggerate the difference in value, which is minor. It also seems like there is a bigger difference in value because the reflected light is usually a different color, again exaggerating the difference. I hope this is making sense.

The blue area on the forehead and just to the left and below his lip, look like they also might be a bit too light. Sometimes it is hard to find a pastel that is both the color you are looking for (in this case, the cooler blue) and also the right value. Either a darker value blue, or perhaps a blend of the blue with the darker shadow color might help darken that value a bit. As far as the ear goes, perhaps darkening those two little areas might move the ear back a bit. Or it might be a case where you need to add a touch of the blue shadow color to the ear, even though in the photo, the ear is slightly redder (and warmer).

As far as measurements go, there is a slight difference in the level of the eyes and eyebrows, your painting having his right eye and brow slightly higher than the left. In all honesty, the difference is small and I can't tell if the right eye is too high or the left eye too low. You might need to do an actual measurement with a ruler to see which one is right!

Again, I drew a lot of lines and arrows, but this is well done!

Don


Quote:
Originally Posted by terri66
Hi Don, I'm having so much fun with this class. Great motivation for me to practice. I took this photo with natural north light which definitely cooled the left hand side of his face. I found I had 3 basic value/temperature groupings. The left shadow, med value and quite cool, the centre bright and warmer, and the right hand side of his face warm and dark. I think the cool shadow measurements are a bit off. Feedback as to what I missed is always appreciated. HMMM, his left ear is having issues about trying to move forward in space.
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Old 02-10-2009, 01:46 AM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

Well, when I started painted again I just couldnt stop .. did another one today from over in the portrait class in portratiure...

I also did a lil more to the lady with glasses & posted it in the gallery here for the heck of it.. its good to be back ... any way this one was also senns on wallis..not a great likeness & a bit askew & & &.. but thot I would post anyway.. i sort of like viewers right side
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:07 AM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

Quote:
Originally Posted by maw-t
Kathy, lemme tell you, your painting is really great! I LOVE IT! You certainly have a good eye for values & a lovely touch with the sticks.. keep them coming!

You are too kind Maw. Kathy
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:21 AM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

T.....Thank you for your nice words!
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:41 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

T,

Another nice portrait - an instantly recognizable likeness!

The only thing I see is that his nose has gotten crooked! He also seems to have a lot more beard on one side than the other - perhaps I am misreading some flesh tones due to the size, but that's what it looks like.



Otherwise, it's very well done, with some great flesh tones, and I love the highlight on the eyeglasses. I might add a bit more pastel to his clothing to make them a bit more solid.

Great work!

Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by maw-t
Well, when I started painted again I just couldnt stop .. did another one today from over in the portrait class in portratiure...

I also did a lil more to the lady with glasses & posted it in the gallery here for the heck of it.. its good to be back ... any way this one was also senns on wallis..not a great likeness & a bit askew & & &.. but thot I would post anyway.. i sort of like viewers right side
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:10 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

Thanks for the input, Don. I played with the colour in those locations you pointed out and the ear seems to be staying put. Thanks, Terri
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:53 PM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

Thanks Don, you r so helpful I really appreciate it! I gave him a shave & dressed him up a little.. also did some blending... Not sure the nose is fixed...I see stuff that needs fixing... I think his eyes are too far apart & out of line... but yikes I am not gonna go there.. on to the next, & next time I will measure for sure! I feel I am really learning here!
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:00 AM
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Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 3: Measuring

OMG this likeness thing is just so dang hard. I'm following along as best I can, and watching all the work, seems like most people get it, so I have to just keep trying.

here is a child, my grandniece, I have an oil started, but it's not going well so I'm going to try pastel, which is a bit easier, for me anyway.

I did the line thing here


and then the value thing here, but you can see already I'm way off
and I really tried hard

Help! Maybe Don can do a demo for me to show how it should look
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