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Old 11-11-2019, 11:05 PM
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musket musket is offline
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Re: The Female Gaze?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustlilac
I second the above poster, its hard to communicate the amount of underhanded comments or completely disgusting remarks thrown at your work and/or you if you dare to paint a male nude.

I don’t blame the women artists for sticking with the female nude just avoid all the vitrol coming from male strangers, family, fellow students, your own art teachers, who just simply can not stand seeing a male nude and will let you know that loud and clear. The hostility from male students was scary to experience. A sterile, very academic, sculpture-like depiction is mostly ok, clearly cartoonish, anime, is ok — anything else is a no go.

And that’s before you try to sell it, no gallery would take it. Even Freud had issues getting a gallery to carry and he he was very well established then. As a modern artist trying to make it, there are enough problems.

This is an extremely weird mindset. I had no idea. As a straight male with a weakness for female beauty, I'd much rather look at painting or sculpture of a female nude. But I wouldn't freak out if I saw one of a male.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:12 AM
DaveCrow DaveCrow is offline
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Re: The Female Gaze?

Next month I should have a few gigs as a nude model for a life drawing group. We will see how they deal with the male nude as subject matter. Mostly I think the will be appreciative that they have someone to draw, they have been struggling to find models. My first time doing nude modeling, so it will be interesting to be on the other side of the easel.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:29 AM
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Keith Russell Keith Russell is offline
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Re: The Female Gaze?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustlilac
I second the above poster, its hard to communicate the amount of underhanded comments or completely disgusting remarks thrown at your work and/or you if you dare to paint a male nude.

I don’t blame the women artists for sticking with the female nude just avoid all the vitrol coming from male strangers, family, fellow students, your own art teachers, who just simply can not stand seeing a male nude and will let you know that loud and clear. The hostility from male students was scary to experience. A sterile, very academic, sculpture-like depiction is mostly ok, clearly cartoonish, anime, is ok — anything else is a no go.

And that’s before you try to sell it, no gallery would take it. Even Freud had issues getting a gallery to carry and he he was very well established then. As a modern artist trying to make it, there are enough problems.

I've never experienced what you describe, either--not at the Kansas City Art Institute where I worked with both male and female models, nor as an artist after graduation, where I've hired male and female models--both for myself, and for life drawing classes I've taught.

For many years, I donated a life drawing every year to an auction fundraiser for a local arts agency, and all of my drawings sold--and I donated drawings of both male and female nudes.

Several of my friends (male and female) have purchased nude life drawings (of both male and female subjects) from me.

So, while I'm not saying you're wrong, my own experience is quite different.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:55 AM
dustlilac dustlilac is offline
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Re: The Female Gaze?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Russell
I've never experienced what you describe, either--not at the Kansas City Art Institute where I worked with both male and female models, nor as an artist after graduation, where I've hired male and female models--both for myself, and for life drawing classes I've taught.

For many years, I donated a life drawing every year to an auction fundraiser for a local arts agency, and all of my drawings sold--and I donated drawings of both male and female nudes.

Several of my friends (male and female) have purchased nude life drawings (of both male and female subjects) from me.

So, while I'm not saying you're wrong, my own experience is quite different.

I tried to ask that question "Why is a life drawing different from painting?" The answers I got were:

"Well, you are forced to do that in school, it's not like you have a choice."
"It's just homework."
"That's just a quick sketch, it's not like you've spent months staring at the dude."
"Those look like Greek statues."
"The drawings look classic, the painting looks too realistic."
"They are not looking at me. Most are just torsos, they don't even have heads."
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:15 PM
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stlukesguild stlukesguild is offline
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Re: The Female Gaze?

I have to wonder if the hostility directed at paintings of the male nude... especially by female artists... has more to do with the male hostility toward any expression of female sexuality than anything else? I remember one fellow art school student who became outraged by the mildly erotic paintings made by a fellow female student. Her paintings were less suggestive than Rodin's Kiss and only slight more so than Klimt's painting by the same title. At the same time, I was one of a number of male artists painting far more suggestive works without any such outrage.

Like Keith, I never experienced any hostility directed toward drawing the male nude in life drawing classes... but there we are speaking of an audience of art students. Even then... I did notice a distinctly different response to paintings of the nude as opposed to life drawing. Life Drawings... after all... are a form of practice... like playing the scales. They are a central aspect of nearly any art school experience. But painting the nude? That is a conscious choice on the part of the artist... and as such, open to questions and challenges.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:35 AM
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Pitterpat4 Pitterpat4 is offline
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Re: The Female Gaze?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianvds
As for the feminists, their thoughts are often so muddled that one cannot really have any sort of discussion with them. It is not clear to me what exactly they want. Should male artists stop painting females? Stop painting them nude? Stop expressing their own thoughts and feelings and rather paint whatever they think female audiences might enjoy? I have no idea, and don't particularly care either.




I understand you don't care to know but I'm going to respond anyway.


The Guerrilla Girls were pointing out that museums seldom show works by female artists. There have always been excellent female artists but they have been ignored. This still happens today. Feminists (btw some feminists are male) want to not be discriminated against.



As other posts have shown, females who paint erotic scenes face anger and hatred by males.



People are often offended by Judy Chicago's "Dinner Party". But it's fine to look at Picasso's paintings of females?
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:24 PM
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brianvds brianvds is offline
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Re: The Female Gaze?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitterpat4
I understand you don't care to know but I'm going to respond anyway.


The Guerrilla Girls were pointing out that museums seldom show works by female artists. There have always been excellent female artists but they have been ignored. This still happens today. Feminists (btw some feminists are male) want to not be discriminated against.



As other posts have shown, females who paint erotic scenes face anger and hatred by males.



People are often offended by Judy Chicago's "Dinner Party". But it's fine to look at Picasso's paintings of females?

Oh, I am well aware that there is discrimination going on. I was thinking of those militant feminists, who are probably actually harming the cause of equality rather than helping it. For myself, I am all in favor of complete equality of opportunity for all, and rejecting a piece of work simply because of the gender (or whatever) of the creator is just silly.

It happens: apparently J.K. Rowling's full names do not appear on her book covers because publishers were concerned that it would put male readers off if they realized the author was not male!

I have never even heard of Judy Chicago. Went to look up the work, and I can see why her name did not ring a bell: this is simply not the kind of art art I have any interest in, irrespective of the gender, race or species of the creator. And thus, my reaction to her controversial masterpiece is "meh" rather than outrage. :-)
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