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Old 08-27-2018, 10:22 PM
forrie forrie is offline
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Applying PHI (Golden Ratio) to a non-standard size

I'm learning the use of PHI in art. The various roots, baroque diagonal, etc. It's a bit complex, but I'm eager to begin using these in my work.

One thing I have not seen answered anywhere is how to apply PHI (whichever root you use, 1.333, 1.618, etc) to a non-standard size surface. That is, a painting surface that doesn't accurately correspond to one of those roots. Take for example a surface I have now, which measures 53 x 40". This more closely works with 1.333 (1.325 is what mine reduces to). But then, I could always just draw an accurate root 1.618 space onto this surface, using the leftover margin as "dead space".

Surely the old masters ran into this from time to time.

I've also thought about getting a PC/Mac projector and simply projecting the desired root onto my surfaces and tracing from there, to save me the monotonous task of measuring, etc.

I'd appreciate any feedback. I could be over thinking this as well, since I'm still learning the theories. But, I am a perfectionist and I like accuracy


Thank you.
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Old 08-29-2018, 04:26 PM
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theBongolian theBongolian is offline
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Re: Applying PHI (Golden Ratio) to a non-standard size

Quote:
Originally Posted by forrie
Take for example a surface I have now, which measures 53 x 40". This more closely works with 1.333 (1.325 is what mine reduces to). But then, I could always just draw an accurate root 1.618 space onto this surface, using the leftover margin as "dead space".

Surely the old masters ran into this from time to time.

I've also thought about getting a PC/Mac projector and simply projecting the desired root onto my surfaces and tracing from there, to save me the monotonous task of measuring, etc.
Thank you.
If you think measuring is monotonous, you'll find setting up a projector even more so.

IMO 1.325 is close enough to 1.33! The best solution is to start with a support that closely approximates the ratio you need. "Dead space" can work sometimes. There are a lot of great paintings that are square and others that are panoramic and all points in between. The golden ratio is not the set-in-cement ratio but just one of many guides.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:07 PM
forrie forrie is offline
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Re: Applying PHI (Golden Ratio) to a non-standard size

I've done a lot of homework since my post. I'm a techie, so setting up a simple projector is simple. I'm wondering what recommendations anyone might have for this application. I see a lot of "HD" projectors out there that seem to be geared toward movies, which I don't need.

All you need to do here is have your surface cut to the appropriate proportions, then project the root grid(s) onto your surface and trace. Doing this manually is really tedious.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:19 PM
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virgil carter virgil carter is online now
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Re: Applying PHI (Golden Ratio) to a non-standard size

Is it time to simply suggest using the rule of thirds, regardless of size and proportion of the paper...?

Keep it simple.

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Old 09-15-2018, 06:08 AM
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Re: Applying PHI (Golden Ratio) to a non-standard size

Quote:
Originally Posted by virgil carter
Keep it simple.
Yes, don't bother with complex design schemes. I've seen very little evidence that "the old masters" used them extensively.


Just design compositions that please the eye. Get a feel for it. Incorporating the golden ratio won't make your paintings magically look good. I cured myself from this way of designing a long time ago and I'm very glad I did.
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:11 PM
m niland m niland is offline
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Re: Applying PHI (Golden Ratio) to a non-standard size

It doesn't matter what the canvas size is, you can use the Golden Ratio (1.618) to divide the surface up and help start the compostion stage.

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Old 03-11-2019, 03:17 PM
zhm zhm is offline
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Re: Applying PHI (Golden Ratio) to a non-standard size

For a cheap art projector, look at Artograph sold at Michaels. It is just mirrors and lenses...no fancy digital stuff.

I know some artists that admit they cannot draw and use projectors all of the time. These are successful fine artists.

Camera obscura....didn't they think that Vermeer, Carravagio, Ingres...used this equipment?
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Old 08-22-2019, 08:29 AM
IanBertram IanBertram is offline
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Re: Applying PHI (Golden Ratio) to a non-standard size

Quote:
Originally Posted by m niland
It doesn't matter what the canvas size is, you can use the Golden Ratio (1.618) to divide the surface up and help start the compostion stage.




Exactly - with a ruler and calculator you could have it divided up in less than a minute.
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Old 09-08-2019, 01:16 AM
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Ted Bunker Ted Bunker is offline
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Re: Applying PHI (Golden Ratio) to a non-standard size

The borders of a painting or drawing aren't that important. Using the golden-mean or thirds or another Baroque compositional system to organize objects or points within the image will trump the borders...especially in a larger image.

Where the additional "empty space" goes should support the narrative of the image. Seek a balance between centered and lopsided that strengthens the composition.
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Old 09-14-2019, 09:35 PM
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dorrart dorrart is offline
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Re: Applying PHI (Golden Ratio) to a non-standard size

The easiest way to get the ratio is using the angle created by the diagonal. It will always be the same angle no matter how large or small. fasten a ruler to a protractor and place the angle then the lines drawn horizontal and vertical intersecting on the line will form two sides of the golden section. To use the golden section in odd sized canvases, place objects in locations that form the ratio in relation to some other object. The reason it is what it is is that humans seek that relationship and see it as attractive.
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Old 10-20-2019, 04:46 PM
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Mike L Mike L is offline
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Re: Applying PHI (Golden Ratio) to a non-standard size

Perhaps try an online calculator? Here's one that is easy to use and has a calculator for all the Goldens: ratio, triangle, spiral, and rectangle.

https://oldmasters.academy/old-maste...tio-calculator
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