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Old 12-17-2018, 02:00 PM
0125a3c 0125a3c is offline
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

The blick gouache sounds like a good idea, their house brand stuff is usually of decent quality I’ve found.

My Nicker paints arrived and I played with them a bit, first impressions are quite positive. They are fun to use and have a very creamy consistency, my cheaper brushes take to them better than the holbein. Initial application goes on nice. Seems to layer and mix well enough, though I think the included white may be a tad weak for mixing/layering over solid colors. It does not seem to have the same malleability in terms of reactivating with water and moving around pigment that I can do with holbein. I find that once you put down the colors they don’t really want to be lifted too much. Saturation is good, though not as good as holbein. Overall though I’m quite pleased, they do what I wanted which is to be able to experiment and throw down paint without concern for having to buy new tubes every month. If you are geared more toward fine arts/framing, they might be questionable because of the lightfastness, but I’m using these in a notebook and mostly to get better and practice. Anyway my 2 cents, take it with a grain of salt.

Last edited by 0125a3c : 12-17-2018 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:28 PM
2dpuppets 2dpuppets is offline
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?



The above card has just been placed in a southerly window.

The Dick Blick Premium Tempera line has 15 colors not including metallics or fluorescents. The colors are Yellow, Orange, Red, Magenta, Violet, Blue, Turquoise, Green, Emerald Green, Yellow-Green, Peach, Burnt Sienna, Brown, Black, and White. These matte colors are advertised as having:
o An Exceptionally Hight Pigment Load
o Thick-Bodied Formula For One-Stroke Coverage
o Brilliant, Lightfast Color
o Not-Toxic And Lead Free

The colors have been painted out on Arches 140 lb Cold Press Watercolor Paper. The White was painted out on a piece of Big White Bee Jet Black Charcoal/Pastel Paper (not the greatest choice, but it was the black paper I had at hand.) I’ll be interested to see if this black paper is lightfast.

Just to head off any questions… The right hand sides of the colors have been masked off with what looks like manila paper. It is not plain manila paper. As you know light would go right through manila paper. This paper is specialty paper for photographic project I was working on. It is basically 2 sheets of manila sandwiching a sheet of aluminum foil. So this thinnish paper is actually light proof.

I know the lightfast test will probably take a while because we are in the gray of winter, but I’ll report back to let you know just how “lightfast” these supposedly “lightfast” colors are.
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:59 AM
Artist_by_Accident Artist_by_Accident is offline
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

0125a3c , thanks for the review of the Nicker. As I said, I've thought about getting some so appreciate your taking the time to talk about them.

If the Holbein is better (in most respects), does the price of the Nicker make them more worthwhile to use than the Nicker? I know your objective was to find a cheaper, but effective, substitute for the expensive Holbein. Do you think the Nicker is that substitute?

2dpuppets, thanks for going to the effort of making the lightfast charts. It seems you've gone above and beyond with the aluminum foil 'sandwich' so we'll know for sure how the Blick paints fare.

I think even with winter gloom, there will be enough UV light to affect the paints because the sun is lower but you're probably right that it will be a while for the full impact to be known.

Again, I appreciate the effort to test these paints!
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Old 01-01-2019, 12:41 PM
0125a3c 0125a3c is offline
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artist_by_Accident
If the Holbein is better (in most respects), does the price of the Nicker make them more worthwhile to use than the Nicker? I know your objective was to find a cheaper, but effective, substitute for the expensive Holbein. Do you think the Nicker is that substitute?

Sort of, I consider them more of a complimentary alternative. I plan to use both. Now obviously there are big questions about the Nicker's lightfastness, I may need to do a chart for my own sake, but other than that they feel like a premium product. They are different in handling, feel and look than the Holbein, but the more I use them the more I like them and learn their quirks.

Although the colors are vibrant the saturation is not quite on the level of the Holbein, though I find this more of an observation on how loaded the Holbein are with pigment. The Holbein also require better brushes in my experience, and you have to get that right balance of water/pigment. The Nicker are much more forgiving in that regard-- they take to my cheap gold taklon brushes well and application is always easy. They also reactivate really well after drying out in the palette, though conversely this also goes against them when doing washes-- which I find requires a really delicate touch otherwise you lift the paint. I find myself treating them a bit like how I paint with acrylics, which is more small feathered strokes and layers. This could be something I learn to get around with experience.

I think the Holbein are really great for that gouache look, you can do those really painterly, confident strokes that instantly have a matte appearance. The Nicker I find myself blending a lot more and there's less of a matte quality, but I find both look good. Like I said I consider them complimentary and they offer different things. Maybe the best aspect of the Nicker is just that they are fun to use, they make you want to paint and take risks; I can see why Ghibli uses them. I got mine for under 60 USD which I think was a good deal, the prices seems to jump around a bit. So yeah, worth it if you want to paint more often and try something a bit different, and are not overly concerned with fading.
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:30 AM
aquarose aquarose is offline
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

I have been using Crayola Premier Tempera with high school students for 15 years. We prefer it to any other brand because it has better opacity and coverage. In that time I have not noticed any fading. I love its velvety texture, and have even used it in advanced level classes. Though not technically gouache, I think it is a great substitute, especially for those on a budget, just learning, or wanting to work large, quickly or loosely. Crayola's regular tempera will not be as good; it has to be the Premier.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:12 AM
Artist_by_Accident Artist_by_Accident is offline
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

Thanks, aquarose! It's interesting that Crayola produces a product that doesn't fade. It sounds as if it work well for practice pieces.

Have you ever done any specific light tests with it? It would be interesting to know how much it does fade but if just used to learn or practice, it should be fine.

AbA
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Old 02-24-2019, 01:33 PM
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

I like Turner and buy at www.jacksonsart.com and they are often sold out on many colors so get new fresh stock but is a long wait to april. I did see some hauls of persons who said some tube was off smelling weird or the watery liquid someone else mentions in a previous post.Meanwhile still trying to adjust list of colors I would want in april. Want some bright colors like seen in Miami, the tropical islands. Any suggestions welcome?
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Old 02-25-2019, 08:12 AM
RedcarUK RedcarUK is offline
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

Hello! I've just discovered this forum (being a regular visitor to the Watercolor forums).

I've just started in gouache and was in the same position as 0125a3c until last Saturday.

I have the Daler Rowney Designer Gouache Introductory set, but I came across a Royal Talens Art Creation set for a very good price and so decided that a paint slinging session was a good idea.

I'm very happy with my first painting (which I'll upload later), and felt able to try various brush and paint techniques, but I think that I will give a better review once I have a few paintings under my belt.

One thing I can say about the Royal Talens gouache is that you have to work for the opacity (but that is probably because my lack of experience with gouache).
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:15 PM
MarcT MarcT is offline
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dpuppets
I know the lightfast test will probably take a while because we are in the gray of winter, but I’ll report back to let you know just how “lightfast” these supposedly “lightfast” colors are.

Hi 2d puppets, I was also interested in this gouache, would you share you test results?

Thanks,

MArc
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:15 AM
tiago.dagostini tiago.dagostini is offline
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

Want to use the opportunity to ask, has anyone here used Talens Gouache? Is it good enough? Here in Brazil is absurdly hard to find gouache. There is only Talens and W&N, but a single tube of W&N cost as much as my whole monthly expenditure in food (the W&N representative in Brazil is simply a guild of thieves) .
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:08 AM
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

Quote:
Originally Posted by otherworlder
I have to make a plug for this jelly cup gouache from Miya. Just search "Miya gouache" on Amazon and you will find it. A set of 18 30ml cups sells for $18 USD. Other than (probably) not being lightfast, everything else compares very favorably to professional gouache (MG is my normal artist grade). Excellent opacity and pigment load, great consistency, portable box with very secure seal, really easy to work with.


https://www.amazon.com/Gouache-Porta...+gouache&psc=1

I have to second the recommendation of the Maya Himi gouache for playing around in a sketchbook, etc. Five of the colors are NOT lightfast -- all three reds, the violet, and the Grass Green. But you still get 13 colors are are supposed to be lightfast, and a great palette! You can toss the fugitive colors, replace those pans with just a couple of reds, and you've got yourself a good set to work with and a fantastic palette that you can repurpose, refill or reuse for just about anything. Personally, I prefer it to the Arteza gouache. Most of those Arteza colors are mixes and a lot of them contain white, causing them to be chalky.
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:48 AM
2dpuppets 2dpuppets is offline
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcT
Hi 2d puppets, I was also interested in this gouache, would you share you test results?

Thanks,

MArc

Sorry, I got lazy and posted the results in another thread. Here they are:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show....php?t=1473791
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:26 AM
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiago.dagostini
has anyone here used Talens Gouache? Is it good enough?
I use Talens gouache (the "extra fine" line, not the "Art Creation" line), it's good, I like it. I read that Holbein don't use any opacizer in their gouache, I'm pretty sure Talens does, but it's ok for me, gouache has to be opaque, if the pigment isn't opaque enough, it's ok to add some opacizer. But if you like to dilute gouache very much, you may find that it's not so "pure" (but I'd suggest you use watercolor, in that case). Also, they use dextrin as a binder, which is supposedly "less good" than gum arabic, but again, for typical gouache usage it's perfectly fine, and it flows very well. Shelf life is very long.


Gouache paintings in my websites are made with Talens gouache, if you want to see some examples.
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:41 AM
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

Regarding Talens gouache, I should add that my shop doesn't sell their "Opaque white" (n. 106). Their other white (n. 100), which is probably a kind of "mixing white", is not completely opaque, so for some usage I prefer using W&N white.
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Old 03-12-2020, 06:03 AM
tiago.dagostini tiago.dagostini is offline
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Re: Suggestions for best 'good enough' gouache?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marioz
I use Talens gouache (the "extra fine" line, not the "Art Creation" line), it's good, I like it. I read that Holbein don't use any opacizer in their gouache, I'm pretty sure Talens does, but it's ok for me, gouache has to be opaque, if the pigment isn't opaque enough, it's ok to add some opacizer. But if you like to dilute gouache very much, you may find that it's not so "pure" (but I'd suggest you use watercolor, in that case). Also, they use dextrin as a binder, which is supposedly "less good" than gum arabic, but again, for typical gouache usage it's perfectly fine, and it flows very well. Shelf life is very long.


Gouache paintings in my websites are made with Talens gouache, if you want to see some examples.




Thanks a lot! I already have a good set of Watercolor (Sennellier) and was indeed looking to work on gouache exactly for more opaque works. I watch James Gurney channel on youtube and got very excited on the results he gets with gouache. I am still struggling a bit ( gouache does not magically self spread and paint like watercolors, so I am still relearning a lot :P) , but was worried that I would be wasting my time with a medium that I cannot find a good enough brand here. Happy to see that you can make great work with these.
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Last edited by tiago.dagostini : 03-12-2020 at 06:27 AM.
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