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Old 06-19-2009, 10:41 AM
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cjorgensen cjorgensen is offline
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

For what it's worth:

Back in the 1970's, my husband wanted to be a potter. He wanted to make beautiful pots and sell them. He got good at it and sold at craft fairs. He was able to regularly make 4 times his mortgage in a weekend, but his mortgage was only $50. He was trying to support a wife and four stepkids. He told me that people didn't really want to buy the truly artistic pots with the rare and difficult glazes, but instead the kitchy frogs and owls sold well.

His wife wanted him to get a "real" job, so he went into metal fabrication. (He had an industrial arts degree). Now, years later, he restores vintage car bodies. Someone brings in a valuable but rusty car, and he takes off the pieces one at a time, and creates each new piece from a flat piece of steel. He does not use any computers or blueprints, but eyeballs and measures the whole thing using old-fashioned techniques. Most people think of him as a "body man". But he is a full time, professional artist.
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:36 PM
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve T. Laws
Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

I ask you.

It always has been since there was an industry to begin with. Nowadays it may seem even more so because there's 6.5 billion people on the planet, so there's a lot of volume of people in every industry.

I would maybe venture to guess there is a lower percentage of artists globally when you consider the overall population, just because of massive shifts in living standards in underdeveloped countries, people can't afford to be artists. Since most of the population exists in these countries it's safe to assume there's fewer artists as a percentage of the whole than before when there were fewer people alive but more regional stability in certain places.

The real issue is why it would be a problem. I do not perceive any problem with it at all, there's always competition in every field, some rise to the top, others fall, some stay the same, it's the normal way of things in this world. It's not a negative.
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:40 PM
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjorgensen
For what it's worth:

Back in the 1970's, my husband wanted to be a potter. He wanted to make beautiful pots and sell them. He got good at it and sold at craft fairs. He was able to regularly make 4 times his mortgage in a weekend, but his mortgage was only $50. He was trying to support a wife and four stepkids. He told me that people didn't really want to buy the truly artistic pots with the rare and difficult glazes, but instead the kitchy frogs and owls sold well.

His wife wanted him to get a "real" job, so he went into metal fabrication. (He had an industrial arts degree). Now, years later, he restores vintage car bodies. Someone brings in a valuable but rusty car, and he takes off the pieces one at a time, and creates each new piece from a flat piece of steel. He does not use any computers or blueprints, but eyeballs and measures the whole thing using old-fashioned techniques. Most people think of him as a "body man". But he is a full time, professional artist.

He should fuse his metal fabrication with pottery and make metal pots painted with car paint. It'd be so awesome, I'd so buy one if it was expensive, and lots if they were cheap. Totally totally awesome.
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:57 PM
tortolitas tortolitas is offline
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Brady
Is the misbalance caused by too much supply of art or too little demand for it?


The demand for water remains high even during floods... especially then, in fact... CLEAN potable bottled water... not the contaminated stuff 14 feet deep in the streets.

Again, there is a need to re-analyze the demand, the product, the pitch, and the delivery--the entire package. There will always be some upscale demand for pretty stuff in gold frames or gallerywrap or displayable on walls or pedestals... BUT ALSO, A lot of untapped markets exist for those who choose look deeper or look beyond stereotypes. (But it is also necessary to be capable of capitalizing on what the research reveals.)

What is "art" for? What do we possess as humans that makes art possible and what are the kinds of uses for such stuff as we possess has it been put to that has brought us through a million years of existence? Decoration and conversation starters and inspirers of sheer "awe" at somethings existence are not the first things on my list.

Again, the stuff we are selling now ain't going away any time soon. Generations of sales yet left.

But putting acquisitions into the home for display and discourse isn't the only possible game in town for individuals skilled in dealing with appearances and aesthetic differences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Brady
My interpretation?

1. There exists, and likely will always exist, a large number of suppliers more interested in being perceived as artists then in generating a reasonable income selling art. Thus, the supply will likely always exceed demand.


Always? maybe not but sure for the forseeable future. It does not however rule out alternatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Brady
2. The deceptive marketing practices commonly employed in selling art have so antagonized many prospective buyers they either avoid buying art or buy only the least expensive.


This is the issue of the millennium.. and not just for Art. We MUST trash and discard the profiteering mentality entirely in so much as possible. Make it too hard for the rest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Brady
3. The prices aspiring artists expect, are, always has been, and likely always will be, considerably higher then the price prospective buyers are prepared to pay.

Wall paper, widow glass, and blocks are just not all that valuable. Especially so long as the perception exists that 1. TALENT is the true name of the game. and 2. That it is apparent that there is a dearth of said "TALENT" as an advertised benchmark.

There is a lot of confusion it the arts today and little confidence as to what is what... or what is worth what ever it is being asked...

Until that confusion is better dealt with imbalances might be expected to remain an issue. IMHO... I dunno...

As "a family" we exhibit a certain discord and perhaps disfunction...
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:10 PM
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Quote:
Wall paper, widow glass, and blocks are just not all that valuable. Especially so long as the perception exists that 1. TALENT is the true name of the game. and 2. That it is apparent that there is a dearth of said "TALENT" as an advertised benchmark
.

I believe there is not only no shortage of artistic talent, there is instead a significant overabundance of it. Those that have talent want to believe they have something rare and valuable when in reality their talent is relatively commonplace and has relatively little market value. The market value is not having talent but being able to exploit talent. That's why the agents and resellers invariable make greater gain then the owners of the talent.

One could accurately say that a talent in marketing art is more valuable then a talent in producing it.
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:17 PM
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Selahs art Selahs art is offline
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Because God gave us the Talent and we use it. cept those that make use of the cover art to make money out of what I call not real art.
I am a Art Teacher too and most people don't even sell their works they do it for relaxation.

Retha
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:43 PM
tortolitas tortolitas is offline
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Brady
.

I believe there is not only no shortage of artistic talent, there is instead a significant overabundance of it. Those that have talent want to believe they have something rare and valuable when in reality their talent is relatively commonplace and has relatively little market value. The market value is not having talent but being able to exploit talent. That's why the agents and resellers invariable make greater gain then the owners of the talent.

One could accurately say that a talent in marketing art is more valuable then a talent in producing it.

Yes...

But what this suggests to me is that our marketplace is poorly structured now... too top heavy... too many places for talent to operate and where talent exists but that is usurped by manufacturers trying to sell a thousand or 100,000 units of an IDENTICAL item.

We need to shop Etsy more.
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:57 PM
tortolitas tortolitas is offline
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by perel
Because God gave us the Talent and we use it. cept those that make use of the cover art to make money out of what I call not real art.
I am a Art Teacher too and most people don't even sell their works they do it for relaxation.

Retha

If you do what you love I can't myself see stress occurring in any way that necessitates structured relaxation activities.

I don't entirely buy the argument however.

I tend to believe that frames and pedestals sort of "art" and the hobby sort of "art" has been over-promoted to individuals when better outlets for making things on aesthetic basis have been situated as less significant and as a less attractive pursuit.

I try to teach my elementary school students artistic skills that they will be able to use for the rest of their lives. Being appreciative consumers of the Fine Art product or brand is less important to me. Fine Art is a resource to draw from in what they do with their skill.
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:10 PM
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Dennis Brady Dennis Brady is offline
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tortolitas
Yes...

But what this suggests to me is that our marketplace is poorly structured now... too top heavy... too many places for talent to operate and where talent exists but that is usurped by manufacturers trying to sell a thousand or 100,000 units of an IDENTICAL item.

We need to shop Etsy more.

Herein lies what may be the single most controversial issue in art marketing. Where some believe the "art" is only in the original and thus copies of the original are of lesser value, others believe the art is in the design and how many copies are made of that design is irrelevant to the value.

I'm firmly in the latter. If a musical composition is good, it's still good if it's a recorded CD instead of a live performance. The same with paintings. If the "art" is good, the 100,000th copy is as good as the original.
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:18 PM
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Selahs art Selahs art is offline
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tortolitas
If you do what you love I can't myself see stress occurring in any way that necessitates structured relaxation activities.

I don't entirely buy the argument however.

I tend to believe that frames and pedestals sort of "art" and the hobby sort of "art" has been over-promoted to individuals when better outlets for making things on aesthetic basis have been situated as less significant and as a less attractive pursuit.

I try to teach my elementary school students artistic skills that they will be able to use for the rest of their lives. Being appreciative consumers of the Fine Art product or brand is less important to me. Fine Art is a resource to draw from in what they do with their skill.

You do not seem to realize that it is other things called Life that can cause stress
Art differs in each persons eyes
I also teach artistic skills that they will be able to use for the rest of their lives.

Retha
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:23 PM
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Dennis Brady Dennis Brady is offline
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by perel
Because God gave us the Talent and we use it. cept those that make use of the cover art to make money out of what I call not real art.
I am a Art Teacher too and most people don't even sell their works they do it for relaxation.

Retha

How would you define the difference between "real" art and "not real" art?
Who gets to make the determination which is "real"?
What has whether or not the work is sold to do with determining if it's art?
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:25 PM
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Dennis Brady Dennis Brady is offline
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by perel
You do not seem to realize that it is other things called Life that can cause stress
Art differs in each persons eyes
I also teach artistic skills that they will be able to use for the rest of their lives.

Retha

Isn't the ability to innovate and create the greatest of all artistic skills?
Why should that ability be restricted to art?
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:35 PM
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Selahs art Selahs art is offline
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Youre right on that one.

real art requires some skills.
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:40 PM
Bootlegger Bootlegger is offline
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

The art industry isn't choked to death with artists. It's choked to death with people who think they're artists.
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:49 PM
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Re: Why is the art industry choked to death with artists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootlegger
The art industry isn't choked to death with artists. It's choked to death with people who think they're artists.

Well said.
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