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Go Back   WetCanvas > Explore Media > Casein, Gouache, and Egg Tempera
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:30 AM
JLiszka JLiszka is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

Quote:
Originally Posted by valnorb
What in the world is wrong with Clayboard smooth, 1/8", C'mon guys, it's year 2006, not 1690, goodness, leave the poor rabbits in their cages to breed and eat and whatever, have fun. Get Clayboard smooth and be on your way.

I agree, Claybord smooth is the way to go for us lazier types who like bunnies. I don't use sable brushes either (gasp!) and have had great results with synthetics.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:45 AM
JLiszka JLiszka is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrewpainting
Hi, I don't know how to do this thread business, being a 'new kid on the block' (what is the Quote button for?) Just a reply to 66Bevbon, the 'Primavera' is on wood panels. When I saw it in the flesh, so to speak, in Florence, I was amazed at how the panels were stitched together and not very flat, you could see the wood imperfections and texture quite well. And the 'Venus' is on Poplar wood panel, in London's National Gallery.

Actually these are both at The Uffizi in Florence, I was there not long ago. Would hate to see someone fly off to the wrong museum, although National Gallery has a lot of Botticellis. Primavera is oil tempera on wood (ET w/some oil added), Birth of Venus is tempera on linen canvas, although the canvas appears to be mounted.
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:08 PM
goldsteinjanet goldsteinjanet is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

Hi All: I have recently become interested in using egg tempera, mainly because I love the vivdly intense and vibrant colours one can achieve with this medium. I am currently preparing my first support or frame, coating with a mixture of rabbit skin glue, chalk dust and calcium oxide, which is heated and then brushed onto the support. I was having trouble with the first coat, as it was gelling the moment I took it off the double boiler. I visited a fix-it shop where a very serious russian artisan, who's job is to restore antique pottery, told me to mix some honey and beer into the concoction. Well, I didn't have any beer handy(I prefer to drink mine), but I did have drop of honey, and Voila... the mixture became instantly smooth and creamy. So far, I have poured about 8 layers of ground, allowing each to dry thoroughly and then sanding the layer until it is almost smooth. I was told I have to layer up to 12 thin coats, then sand until it is satin smooth. I'll let you all know how it goes. If I had to rely on this for a living, as one did in the 15th century I would starve. I haven't started with the paint yet. That will be another steep learning curve.
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:25 PM
goldsteinjanet goldsteinjanet is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

thanks for all the good leads and advice guys. I'm learning so much. There is something to be said about learning from the experience of others. This way I am saving myself lots of time, by not falling into the wrong rabbit hole, so to speak. (please forgive the pun).
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:02 AM
JLiszka JLiszka is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

Welcome goldsteinjanet. I too am learning slowly, from a friend who has many years experience and also from the many books I have collected. So far I have liked my results although I am breaking RULES! Cennini would be rolling in his grave. I would be starving also.
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:07 PM
hoakley hoakley is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

Forgive me for questioning established dogma, but recent discussions elsewhere have set me in this frame of mind.

What are are reasons for using traditional gesso rather than modern acrylic 'gesso' on a rigid support such as a panel, for egg tempera (or casein)?

The ones that I have seen advanced or hinted at include:
- acrylic gesso is flexible; however if used on a rigid support, it is as rigid as the support is, surely?
- acrylic gesso does not bind as well to the medium; however modern acrylic gessos seem able to bind well to almost anything, so I would be interested to know how egg medium differs.
- acrylic gesso is not proven to be archival in quality; whilst this is strictly true, all the indications from long experience with acrylic paints is now that acrylic media are excellent keepers, far better than many traditional media, and superior to poorly made traditional gesso (or iffy glue in gesso).
- acrylic gesso is not as absorbent as traditional gesso; but there is conflicting advice about possibly sizing traditional gesso if it proves too absorbent.
- acrylic gesso does not impart the same lustrous quality; used properly with glazing, this does not seem to be the case with oils, at least.

Are there other good reasons, or has the dogma perhaps become a matter of purism, much like the fact that 'real egg tempera artists never used tubed paint'?

Howard.
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Old 03-18-2009, 10:00 PM
JLiszka JLiszka is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoakley
Forgive me for questioning established dogma, but recent discussions elsewhere have set me in this frame of mind.

What are are reasons for using traditional gesso rather than modern acrylic 'gesso' on a rigid support such as a panel, for egg tempera (or casein)?

The ones that I have seen advanced or hinted at include:
- acrylic gesso is flexible; however if used on a rigid support, it is as rigid as the support is, surely?
- acrylic gesso does not bind as well to the medium; however modern acrylic gessos seem able to bind well to almost anything, so I would be interested to know how egg medium differs.
- acrylic gesso is not proven to be archival in quality; whilst this is strictly true, all the indications from long experience with acrylic paints is now that acrylic media are excellent keepers, far better than many traditional media, and superior to poorly made traditional gesso (or iffy glue in gesso).
- acrylic gesso is not as absorbent as traditional gesso; but there is conflicting advice about possibly sizing traditional gesso if it proves too absorbent.
- acrylic gesso does not impart the same lustrous quality; used properly with glazing, this does not seem to be the case with oils, at least.

Are there other good reasons, or has the dogma perhaps become a matter of purism, much like the fact that 'real egg tempera artists never used tubed paint'?

Howard.

These are the two major ones, from what I have been told. You want an absorbent surface, almost like you would maybe use for watercolor, or a fresco, yet it must be stiff or else the egg cracks. I haven't tried acrylic gesso because I have been warned against it, same way watercolorists and oil painters are warned against using paper or canvas that isn't acid-free. You just stay away. I use old plastic lids (from anything that would otherwise end up trash) to mix my tiny paints in (has to be thrown away frequently) and I know et paints dont stick to the plastic lids at all. However, if I do a test strip on claybord smooth I have to scrape at it with my thumbnail to get it to barely flake a bit. So that is my educated guess: the binder will not stick to plastic/acrylic with any decent permanent bond.
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Old 03-19-2009, 02:10 PM
hoakley hoakley is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

Thanks for those comments. They are easy to substantiate, so I may play with some different acrylic primers and see how true the claims are.

Howard.
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Old 03-20-2009, 12:53 AM
JLiszka JLiszka is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoakley
Thanks for those comments. They are easy to substantiate, so I may play with some different acrylic primers and see how true the claims are.

Howard.

Let us know how your experiments turn out!
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:09 PM
Bearlette Bearlette is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

What is the reason to put alum on WC paper?
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:12 PM
Bearlette Bearlette is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

What is the reason for coating WC paper with Alum? (New at this stuff) Bearlette.
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:31 PM
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MonaDC MonaDC is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

The most ideal surface for egg tempera is rabbit-skin glue gesso panel. I use this for larger paintings in particular.

For my miniature painting, I paint with egg tempera on Kelmscott vellum. There can be some warpage if you apply the paint with too much water content, but for a very small painting area, this is a lovely surface, and it is secured under a matt and glass when framed.

I have also painted for most of my illustration career with egg tempera on Strathmore illustration board, and some of these paintings are still in great shape 25 years later.
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:37 PM
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Celadonite Celadonite is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonaDC
For my miniature painting, I paint with egg tempera on Kelmscott vellum. There can be some warpage if you apply the paint with too much water content, but for a very small painting area, this is a lovely surface, and it is secured under a matt and glass when framed.

Do you have to treat the Kelmscott vellum with anything before painting? What size work seems best suited to painting on vellum?

Do you mix your egg tempera differently for the vellum than for a gesso ground?

It's a wonderful idea, using vellum and I hope to try it soon, thanks!
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:46 PM
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

Has anyone tried using papyrus as a carrier for E.T.?

I saw a pic of an icon painted on papyrus in E.T. in a book by Solrunn Nes, so apparently it can be done.
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:35 PM
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Harry Seymour Harry Seymour is offline
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Re: Favorite supports for egg tempera

I use Claybord which has a wonderful obsorbancy quality that I like. Here is an example of a claybord painting --Eye on the prize -16x20.
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